W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > September 2013

Re: Semantically marking up a "checklist" or process

From: TallyFy <hello@tallyfy.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:03:20 +0100
To: Justin Boyan <jaboyan@google.com>
Cc: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>, Jason Douglas <jasondouglas@google.com>, Jarno van Driel <jarno@quantumspork.nl>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Guha Guha <guha@google.com>, PublicVocabs <public-vocabs@w3.org>, Vicki Tardif Holland <vtardif@google.com>, Sam Goto <goto@google.com>
Message-ID: <738EF8029F434E678A041CC302C25068@tallyfy.com>
I presume this is not in scope, but it's nice to have. The markup that encapsulates a list, could that have comesAfter or comesBefore or relatedTo - or equivalents? Kept simple, this is a set of declared instances, not too far from a set of hyperlinks - since we should be free to link lists like we link anchor text in HTML.

The aggregation problem of parsing, indexing and ranking is unrelated here, but FYI - we intend to record the time and number of list executions on Tallyfy i.e. "How to get a Chile visa for British citizens" took on average 8 days, has 5 steps, 600 people have "done it" and step 4 took the longest average time of 4 days.  For us, it will provide inputs to rank and evaluate lists. 

Amit
http://tallyfy.com


On Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 18:49, Justin Boyan wrote:

> I think we're basically in agreement - broaden the range of itemListElement to Thing, and document on that property that ListItem should be used when explicit ordering or numbering is required.  On ListItem, I prefer the property name "item" to "represents" -- the latter seems confusable with "sameAs".
> 
> jb
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org (mailto:martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org)> wrote:
> > Hi Justin:
> > On Sep 11, 2013, at 5:51 PM, Justin Boyan wrote:
> > 
> > > The current proposal is ambiguous about whether the ListItem is the item itself, or whether the ListItem.represents is the item.
> > > Here are two options which I think would be clearer:
> > 
> > > Option 1. Make the range of itemListElement be Thing.  Create a new StructuredValue called NumberedItem which pairs a Number and a Thing.
> > 
> > The ListItem is the ListItem ;-) Actually, it is the same as the NumberedItem type you propose below. If you want to model an entity linked to the list item (i.e. a song, artist, place, ...), then you can define that externally or within the list.
> > 
> > We could broaden the range of itemListElement to Thing so that a list can contain three types of entries:
> > 
> > a) untyped, pure text entries (as it is in the current version)
> > b) a structured value that holds a position and a link to another entity (my original proposal) or
> > c) any other entity without an order (basically your proposal; but then it becomes a unordered list).
> > 
> > > With this schema, representing a list without numbers can be done with a flat model:
> > >
> > > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
> > >   "@type" : "ItemList",
> > >   "itemListElement" : [ {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Jaws"}, {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Bulworth"} ] }
> > >
> > Note that this list has not deterministic order. While JSON-LD and Microdata carry an order of the elements in the syntax, the order can be lost when the data is translated by RDF tooling.
> > 
> > > And the extra hierarchy only comes into play when numbers are required:
> > >
> > > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
> > >   "@type" : "ItemList",
> > >   "itemListElement" : [ {"@type" : "NumberedItem", "number" : 1, "item" : {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Jaws"}},
> > >                         {"@type" : "NumberedItem", "number" : 2, "item" : {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : Bulworth"}} ] }
> > >
> > >
> > This does not work, because you assign the number to the item instead of assigning it to the item in the context of the list.
> > 
> > > Option 2. Add a new property for the item position directly to schema.org/Thing (http://schema.org/Thing). Call it, say, "rank" -- maybe it finds some other general applications besides item lists.
> > >
> > > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
> > >   "@type" : "ItemList",
> > >   "itemListElement" : [{"@type" : "Movie", "rank" : 1, "name" : "Jaws"}, {"@type" : "Movie", "rank": 2, "name" : "Bulworth"}] }
> > >
> > >
> > > What do you think? I think I prefer Option 1.
> > >
> > This has the same problem.
> > 
> > In fact, as far as I can see, the original proposal caters for all of these cases, except for the case where you want an unordered list.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > > Justin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org (mailto:martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org)> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My question was about *numbered* unstructured steps... which I think is actually the use case that started the thread.
> > > >
> > > Then I ListItem.name (http://ListItem.name) should do the trick.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > > martin hepp
> > > > e-business & web science research group
> > > > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> > > >
> > > > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org (mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org)
> > > > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217 (tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217)
> > > > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620 (tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620)
> > > > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> > > >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> > > > skype:   mfhepp
> > > > twitter: mfhepp
> > > >
> > > > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> > > > =================================================================
> > > > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > martin hepp
> > > e-business & web science research group
> > > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> > >
> > > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org (mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org)
> > > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217 (tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217)
> > > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620 (tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620)
> > > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> > >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> > > skype:   mfhepp
> > > twitter: mfhepp
> > >
> > > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> > > =================================================================
> > > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > martin hepp
> > e-business & web science research group
> > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
> > 
> > e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org (mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org)
> > phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217 (tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217)
> > fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620 (tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620)
> > www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
> >          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> > skype:   mfhepp
> > twitter: mfhepp
> > 
> > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> > =================================================================
> > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
Received on Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:04:05 UTC

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