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Re: Semantically marking up a "checklist" or process

From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@hw.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 09:39:44 +0100
Message-ID: <5232CF50.2020704@hw.ac.uk>
To: public-vocabs@w3.org
Hello
There have been some discussions on the LRMI mail list[1] about 
educational courses that have some parallels with this. If you think of 
a generic educational course as a structured collection of learning 
resources, and consider that one way of structuring that collections is 
to say first you read this, then you attend event A, then event B, then 
you sit this test you'll perhaps see the commonality (nb other course 
structures exist!)

My feeling is that it would be hard to do ordering with schema since A 
only comes before B in certain contexts yet schema has a global scope; 
on the other hand it is very easy to do ordering with other related 
technologies, e.g. <ol><li>A</li><li>B</li></ol>

Phil

1. "Raising the issue of collections..." 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lrmi 
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/lrmi>


On 12/09/2013 17:03, TallyFy wrote:
> I presume this is not in scope, but it's nice to have. The markup that 
> encapsulates a list, could that have comesAfter or comesBefore or 
> relatedTo - or equivalents? Kept simple, this is a set of declared 
> instances, not too far from a set of hyperlinks - since we should be 
> free to link lists like we link anchor text in HTML.
>
> The aggregation problem of parsing, indexing and ranking is unrelated 
> here, but FYI - we intend to record the time and number of list 
> executions on Tallyfy i.e. "How to get a Chile visa for British 
> citizens" took on average 8 days, has 5 steps, 600 people have "done 
> it" and step 4 took the longest average time of 4 days.  For us, it 
> will provide inputs to rank and evaluate lists.
>
> Amit
> http://tallyfy.com
>
> On Wednesday, 11 September 2013 at 18:49, Justin Boyan wrote:
>
>> I think we're basically in agreement - broaden the range of 
>> itemListElement to Thing, and document on that property that ListItem 
>> should be used when explicit ordering or numbering is required.  On 
>> ListItem, I prefer the property name "item" to "represents" -- the 
>> latter seems confusable with "sameAs".
>>
>> jb
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Martin Hepp 
>> <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org 
>> <mailto:martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin:
>>> On Sep 11, 2013, at 5:51 PM, Justin Boyan wrote:
>>>
>>> > The current proposal is ambiguous about whether the ListItem is 
>>> the item itself, or whether the ListItem.represents is the item.
>>> > Here are two options which I think would be clearer:
>>>
>>> > Option 1. Make the range of itemListElement be Thing.  Create a 
>>> new StructuredValue called NumberedItem which pairs a Number and a 
>>> Thing.
>>>
>>> The ListItem is the ListItem ;-) Actually, it is the same as the 
>>> NumberedItem type you propose below. If you want to model an entity 
>>> linked to the list item (i.e. a song, artist, place, ...), then you 
>>> can define that externally or within the list.
>>>
>>> We could broaden the range of itemListElement to Thing so that a 
>>> list can contain three types of entries:
>>>
>>> a) untyped, pure text entries (as it is in the current version)
>>> b) a structured value that holds a position and a link to another 
>>> entity (my original proposal) or
>>> c) any other entity without an order (basically your proposal; but 
>>> then it becomes a unordered list).
>>>
>>> > With this schema, representing a list without numbers can be done 
>>> with a flat model:
>>> >
>>> > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
>>> >   "@type" : "ItemList",
>>> >   "itemListElement" : [ {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Jaws"}, 
>>> {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Bulworth"} ] }
>>> >
>>> Note that this list has not deterministic order. While JSON-LD and 
>>> Microdata carry an order of the elements in the syntax, the order 
>>> can be lost when the data is translated by RDF tooling.
>>>
>>> > And the extra hierarchy only comes into play when numbers are 
>>> required:
>>> >
>>> > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
>>> >   "@type" : "ItemList",
>>> >   "itemListElement" : [ {"@type" : "NumberedItem", "number" : 1, 
>>> "item" : {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : "Jaws"}},
>>> >                         {"@type" : "NumberedItem", "number" : 2, 
>>> "item" : {"@type" : "Movie", "name" : Bulworth"}} ] }
>>> >
>>> >
>>> This does not work, because you assign the number to the item 
>>> instead of assigning it to the item in the context of the list.
>>>
>>> > Option 2. Add a new property for the item position directly to 
>>> schema.org/Thing <http://schema.org/Thing>. Call it, say, "rank" -- 
>>> maybe it finds some other general applications besides item lists.
>>> >
>>> > { "@context" : "http://schema.org",
>>> >   "@type" : "ItemList",
>>> >   "itemListElement" : [{"@type" : "Movie", "rank" : 1, "name" : 
>>> "Jaws"}, {"@type" : "Movie", "rank": 2, "name" : "Bulworth"}] }
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > What do you think? I think I prefer Option 1.
>>> >
>>> This has the same problem.
>>>
>>> In fact, as far as I can see, the original proposal caters for all 
>>> of these cases, except for the case where you want an unordered list.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> > Justin
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Martin Hepp 
>>> <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org 
>>> <mailto:martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > My question was about *numbered* unstructured steps... which I 
>>> think is actually the use case that started the thread.
>>> > >
>>> > Then I ListItem.name <http://ListItem.name> should do the trick.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Martin
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------
>>> > > martin hepp
>>> > > e-business & web science research group
>>> > > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>> > >
>>> > > e-mail: hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org <mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
>>> > > phone: +49-(0)89-6004-4217 <tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217>
>>> > > fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620 <tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620>
>>> > > www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>> > > http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>> > > skype:   mfhepp
>>> > > twitter: mfhepp
>>> > >
>>> > > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>> > > =================================================================
>>> > > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > --------------------------------------------------------
>>> > martin hepp
>>> > e-business & web science research group
>>> > universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>> >
>>> > e-mail: hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org <mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
>>> > phone: +49-(0)89-6004-4217 <tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217>
>>> > fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620 <tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620>
>>> > www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>> > http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>> > skype:   mfhepp
>>> > twitter: mfhepp
>>> >
>>> > Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>> > =================================================================
>>> > * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> martin hepp
>>> e-business & web science research group
>>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>>
>>> e-mail: hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org <mailto:hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
>>> phone: +49-(0)89-6004-4217 <tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4217>
>>> fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620 <tel:%2B49-%280%2989-6004-4620>
>>> www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>> http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>> skype:   mfhepp
>>> twitter: mfhepp
>>>
>>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>> =================================================================
>>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 
<http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~philb/>



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Received on Friday, 13 September 2013 08:40:27 UTC

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