See also: IRC log
<DaveB> DanC: AndyS and I are at HP
<HiroyukiS> P3 is me
<kendall> is the "s" in "sparql" "simple" or "sparql"?
it's sparql (what's diff between 1st and last Kendall?)
<kendall> yoshio: hehe
<DanC> Minutes of DAWG 2005-02-15 telcon for review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0133.html
minutes accepted as amended
<Yoshio> well, I was absent on 15 (sick in bed)
<DanC> ammendment2: Yoshio Fukushige not at 15 Feb telcon
<Yoshio> thank you
<DanC> ftf5 agenda
actions 1: all continued except Steve's
<DanC> hm... http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/meetings/tp2005.html $Revision: 1.5 $ of $Date: 2005/02/22 16:02:46 $ by $Author: swick $
ftf5: kendall to scribe
<afs> Boston->CET is 6 hours
dan has requested same phone #
<DanC> steve's offer to host
<DanC> PatH: european SemWeb thing is 1Jun and prev 3 days
ftf6: asemantics offer 19-20 may
pat to put offer in writing
<DanC> Yoshio: pls co-locate ftf meeting with other events
yoshio: prefers adjacent to another conference
kevin: no pref
howard: no pref
hiro: no pref
danc: hoping to go to xtech amsterdam
kendall: not much of a pref
steve: prefers later
plus offers to host
pat offered as well
doesn't mind if elsewhere tho
eric: co-locate w/ xtech would be nice
jos: same as alberto
<AlbertoR> alberto: prefers Europe for f2f 6th either Southumpton (or Leiden)
andy: being in Japan 1 week before Leiden would be toughish
dave: also going to japan
<kendall> hmm, there's a good chance I'll be in Japan too, actually.
danc: would like to celebrate candidate rec in June
<DanC> (get there in Apr, celebrate May/Jun)
danc: can we decide in cambridge?
<DanC> so danc's action continues; the rest are done.
and much happiness all around
eric: operators depending on operand type still a bit unclear
whoops: I missed what was a bit controversial eric?
<DaveB> from XQuery F&O
<DaveB> DanC mentioned query pubbed around cvs version 1.224/1.225
daveb: action is done
liam's suggest xsl group to review result set spec
daveb: a few comments re attrs vs elements but not significant
<AlbertoR> Damian Steer
daveb: mentions comment and recommendation on xsi:type
<Zakim> DanC, you wanted to note qname "fun"
danc: xsi:type takes qname, with
... comment seems well motivated
dave: can't turn all uri's into qnames
eric: wsdl uri types are xpointers and end in lparens: can't become qnames
<DanC> (ericp, are those WSDL uris supposed to be URIs for datatypes? or URIs for datatype-related-syntactic-constructs?)
dave will accept action to mull on this
<DanC> ACTION: DaveB to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/22-dawg-minutes#action01]
best practises doc discusses this issue
<ericP> <foo xmlns:foo="http://...myCrazyScheme#" xsi:datatype="foo:thang">1234</foo>
daveb: wants to also think over yes/no in result set
<afs> Eric - that complicates things :-(
<ericP> orig datatype was http://...myCrazyScheme#thang. did we communicate that to XSD? or at least RDF people interpretting theXML data?
<patH> the best practices doc is http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20050127/
daveb: to review question of errors from protocol affecting result set
malformed query to return defined error in result set ?
<DanC> (hmm... HTTP error codes seem exactly right for the "malformed query" case)
kendall: what about soap, rpc etc?
daveb: runtime errors can also occur (??)
<DaveB> runtime errors such as can't load uri, extension function failed, ...
kendall: some http error codes map nicely, but ...
<DanC> 400 Bad Request
<DanC> looking in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ ...
kendall: has relevant section in
protocol spec re 400 bad request
... but not 100% confident of treatment
danc: looks ok to me
daveb: hoping for another draft before ftf, get in yes/no and think about schema thing
pat has done detailed review for authors
thinks nice piece of work!
doesn't think 2nd half impacts our work
erics hasn't read pat's comment yet
pat: 1st half has recommendation on id (?) rather than name
technique of using bracketed ending not practical for compatibility reasons
<ericP> (that technique is XPointer, i believe)
didn't fully understand all ramifications tho
ericp: mostly made sense
pat: it's a bit of a mess
danc: would prefer to see test case how it effects our work
ericp: action continued
jos: sorry, no further progress
to be continued
(prior of section 11 testing values)
jos: 2 test cases: one test case no results; 2nd case an implies returning data
in this case fires once
danc: not sure how well fits existing test structure
but engines doing inference before should be discussed somewhere
danc: saying it's ok, it can happen
<DaveB> Andy refers to ' ?A^^xsd:dateTime'
daveb: notes similarity to casting (dave? andy?)
<DanC> (jos, I think it would be interesting to discuss ?A^^xsd:dateTime in public-cwm-talk)
andy: mentions issue of type promotion from xquery
test only gets applied to final type
<DanC> (my wish for a discussion of this sort of inference in one of our docs doesn't seem to have gone anywhere... hmm... I guess that's ok)
<afs> Opne to suggests for a para to insert somewhere Dan.
danc: may a 1000 test cases bloom
<afs> Pref have that text early, not specific to values
eg do strings automatically get promoted to ints?
danc: test case 2 means change to turtle
turtle + literal subjects
<DaveB> test case 1 does not need literal subjects
test case 2 also has triple variable in it
<DaveB> ?A^^xsd:dateTime math:greaterThan ?B^^xsd:dateTime
can't be done
<DanC> "2005-02-15T00:00:00Z" op:dateTime-greater-than "2000-06-00T00:00:00Z".
<DaveB> Tripe pattern section 2.2
<DaveB> RDF-G union V x RDF-U union V x RDF-G union V
danc: would be in favour of
extending turtle to handle literal subjects for test
... would require changing turtle, but isn't rdf/xml
<DanC> "2005-02-15T00:00:00Z"^^xsd:dateTime op:dateTime-greater-than "2000-06-00T00:00:00Z"^^xsd:dateTime.
pat: would have pedagogic value to do so
ericp: would hesitate to add a new req: literal subjects
<AlbertoR> same here
<afs> +1 - we check and assume no literal subjects
<DaveB> DaveB also redland
sorry: check for what andy?
<afs> Our Graph layer can do it - Our public API doesn't
danc: doesn't see critical mass of support
<afs> (Check for literal subjects)
jos: you can use bnode to express this in rdf/xml
<ericP> what's the range of owl:sameAs ?
steve: literal subjects seem like agood idea, but maybe not in the query language
danc: invites jos to submit test
jos prefers to wait a bit due to bandwith issue
<DanC> ACTION: Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0146.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/22-dawg-minutes#action02]
<DaveB> I hope JosD uses the triple: <DanC> "2005-02-15T00:00:00Z" op:dateTime-greater-than "2000-06-00T00:00:00Z".
dan's email prompted a few thoughts
<kendall> so that's not something we shld consider for dawg work?
proposes to postpone the issue
<kendall> good, that's one less thing i have to read soon. :>
at least for this recommendation, no impetus to standardize seen
<DaveB> I don't think anyone has actually made such a service...
<DanC> PROPOSED: to postpone accessingCollections because (a) our not standardizing it doesn't stop anybody from playing (b) none of the extant designs seems sufficiently mature
pat feels nervous about postponing this
7 different implementations will spring into being
w/ accompanying chaos
danc: not so bad
... feels group has given sufficient thought to this
question: postpone this?
<kendall> KC abstaining, as well
<Yoshio> how about giving just informative example?
<DanC> no, hp did not abstain
<afs> HP is happy to postpone the issue to the next WG
whoops, that's me
hiroyuki: can live w/ postpone
w3c: in favour
<DanC> p a a p p a p a p a
<DanC> p a a p p a p a p a p
danc: question carries
<DanC> so RESOLVED
no motion to adjourn
<DanC> Re: on log:definitiveService
danc ACTION: 0166.thml
andy said yes, not much other response
andy: you can be 'partially definitive'
kendall: inclined to support something similar
<Yoshio> what do you mean by "partically definitive,"andy?
assumes doesn't need more text from danc
danc: still a bit early for a few (who?)
dan's action's done
<DanC> (I heard SteveH, DaveB say "too early")
kendall wants support in order to do so
danc: (1) we can write a test case (for failure)
<DaveB> sounds too premature to me. get these people together to invent a preidcate themselves and experiment
(2) (howard missed that)
action on sparqlParam: ...
ericp: it offers people providing services much more latitude
<afs> Makes writing servlets hard ??
<DaveB> there are 6 http query params in sparql protocol
<afs> (Servlet API has parameter accessors)
eric to mail on simple concatenation
<kendall> fwiw, I preferred some of those query parameters to be HTTP headers...
has already done: ...
dan's action done
next 3 actions kendall's ...
<afs> Kendall, doesn't that mess up HTTP?
would like to put 3 on agenda cambridge
<kendall> afs: huh?
<ericP> concatonated query: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0128 option 4 (look for "append the encoded query directoly")
danc: just giving example of construct w/ optional ok
overloading http error code seems bad idea
(prior is kendall)
<afs> and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0140.html which suggests layering and making client assembly independent
question of adding an http header ...
<DanC> 13.1.2 Warnings
seems possibly relevant
also steve's prior url
<ericP> kendall, http extensions: http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/ietf-http-ext/
ericp: continued to tech plenary
ericp to expedite somewhat
kendall: lab partner has shown soap protocol, 70% soap binding for sparql protocol
offered to help co-write note on this
what to do?
will try to incorporate under pressure to publish expeditiously
danc: if they joined wg, they could present ideas directly
kendall: odds to join are low, not their priority
kendall action to followup with email
should other bindings be incorporated in protocol spec
ericp: would be nice to leverage off their work
<DanC> (just about out of time)
kendall: thinks available in open source
danc: motion to adjourn