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Re: PROV-ISSUE-47 (third-party-provenance): How to obtain provenance from a third party known by the user [Accessing and Querying Provenance]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:32:39 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|d0cf80a1275e14a90a2b269b5672c518n6REWj08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4E3164F7.5050904@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi Graham,

As for ISSUE-46, where do I find the information identifier, when I 
consider the case
of an html file on a disk?

I think there is a range of ways of "identifying documents", sometimes 
coexisting.
The specification should identify the rules that prevail to determine
the document exact identity.

I can see all the following identifiers having some value:

-a document-identifier embedded in the html file (useful for html file 
on disk)
-a document-identifier in the http header (would identify the actual bob 
returned)
-the url used to retrieve the document (useful for cool urls)


Luc

On 07/28/2011 01:40 PM, Graham Klyne wrote:
> I believe this is addressed by section 3.4 
> (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/provenance-access.html#third-party-services), 
> which addresses precisely the use-case described by this issue.
>
> Specifically, if I have the URI of a third party provenance service, 
> and a URI or identifying information about the target resource, a 
> SPARQL query can be constructed to locate the required provenance URI 
> and/or data from that third party.  I think availability of such 
> information is pretty much a prerequisite for creating any kind of 
> third party provenance service - I can't see how it might work without 
> that.
>
> I think this may have more to do with discussion around ISSUE 46 
> (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/46) - the extent to which 
> the provenance information itself identifies the entity whose 
> provenance it describes.
>
> #g
> -- 
>
>
> Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>> PROV-ISSUE-47 (third-party-provenance): How to obtain provenance from 
>> a third party known by the user [Accessing and Querying Provenance]
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/47
>>
>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>> On product: Accessing and Querying Provenance
>>
>> I don't understand how the proposal allows us to address 
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceAccessScenario.
>>
>> Specifically, I consider the case where the user wants to access 
>> provenance from a third-party they know (e.g. a favorite consumer 
>> group).
>>
>> Using section 3, I can obtain one or more provenance-uris, which are 
>> known from the responding server or the document creator.
>> If my third-party is not known by the responding server or document 
>> creator, I have no mechanism to obtain a provenance-uri since I don't 
>> have have an identifier for the document I currently hold.
>>
>> A solution could be: we need a BOB-identifier to be passed around (as 
>> suggested in ISSUE-46) and a mechanism that resolves a BOB-identifier 
>> to provenance-uri.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Thursday, 28 July 2011 13:33:11 GMT

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