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Re: EPUB requirements and options

From: Kenny <kennyluck@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 18:33:41 +0900
Cc: "MURATA (FAMILY Given)" <eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp>, fantasai <fantasai@inkedblade.net>
Message-Id: <A1CCA1A2-7AE5-4D13-9D92-FF27CA40FCC9@w3.org>
To: public-i18n-cjk@w3.org

> Enhanced Global Language Support = EGLS
>
> We have an IRC conference this morning. We talked a lot about Ruby.  
> Here's the IRC log

Summary of the meeting today:

We basically did a survey of the requirements and the potential  
solutions. Requirements with solutions include

- Column progression direction (EGLS_VW3) -  CSS Column Module Level 3
- Providing Optimal Layouts for More than One Writing Mode and for  
Announcing Non-Optimality (EGLS_VW6) - fantasai says she has already a  
Microformat solution
- the switching to large kana problem - 'text-transform' of CSS Text  
Level 3 and 'font-alternate: ruby' of CSS Font Level 3
- Mono ruby/Jukugo Ruby (Semantic)/Group Ruby - HTML5

but there's concern from Murata-san about this:

[[
[MURATA] Richard Ishida's document is probably the only source, which  
has some status in W3C.
[MURATA] http://www.w3.org/International/datespace/2010/02/jlreq-examples/
[MURATA] I'm afraid that some of use do not agree with Richard's  
interpretation.
]]

Murata-san, can you elaborate or identify some pointers? Maybe Richard  
or I should revise that document.

Also we don't quite agree with the WebKit implementer's use of HTML5  
Ruby for Mono-Ruby -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-jp/2010Mar/0027.html 
  . Richard's use is much preferred. That is, Mono-Ruby and Jukugo- 
Ruby should have the same markup (just different style, see below)

- Bopomofo Ruby - CSS Ruby Module Level 3
- Multiple Ruby Text - nested HTML5 Ruby, although more cases is to be  
investigated
- default behavior/reader's modes - CSS UA style sheet switching

Some requirements we don't yet have any solution

- Jukugo Ruby Styling (ruby characters distributed) - should be  
addressed in CSS Ruby Module Level 3

    see the style section of http://www.w3.org/International/datespace/2010/02/jlreq-examples/#eg4

- Line breaking in Ruby

   I did a followup with fantasai after the meeting. I now agree that  
Jukugo Ruby with ruby characters distributed can be broke up so that  
the ruby characters are no longer distributed. Group ruby/Jukuji  
should certainly not be broken up. I think we should make a diagram  
that demonstrates this behavior and discuss with Japanese Layout Task  
Force folks. (Cause this will happen when you resize your window and  
this situation might not have been addressed).

What fantasai suggested was that HTML5 should introduce <rb> auto- 
recovery:

<ruby>紫陽花<rt>あじさい</rt></ruby>

->

<ruby><rb>紫陽花</rb><rt>あじさい</rt></ruby>

just like <tbody> in <table>, so that you can style

rb {
    white-space: no-wrap
}

. Otherwise, we might want to define this line breaking behavior in  
CCS 3 Ruby(not sure how to do it). I am not sure whether this is too  
late to bring up this issue to HTML WG. Her use case is that you might  
want to do

<ruby>(some french here)<rt>(some English translation)</rt></ruby> and  
in this case you would want to have normal line breaking.

We'll discuss solutions for different vertical text layout behaviors.  
This will probably be quite tough.


Cheers,
Kenny
Received on Friday, 24 September 2010 09:34:11 GMT

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