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Re: headers attribute (was Re: Form elements)

From: Bill Mason <w3c@accessibleinter.net>
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:12:14 -0700
Message-ID: <4662156E.40606@accessibleinter.net>
To: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>

Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
> On 2007-06-01 05:04:07 +0200 Bill Mason <w3c@accessibleinter.net> wrote:
> 
>> Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>>> Anne also made the point about authors mispelling headers. But do we know 
>>> why they mispell it? I think because no web features that those authors can 
>>> sense relies upon it. And so they don't sense their misdeeds.
>> Since we know authors also commonly misspell attributes that do have a visual 
>> impact [1], the impact of the rest of your argument is somewhat muted at 
>> best.
> 
> The [1] indicted you could back up your claim - but I did not find that link.

Sorry, that should have been a reference to the 2nd to last paragraph on 
http://code.google.com/webstats/2005-12/tables.html

> Well, I think you, at best, is exaggerating somewhat. We all do things wrong, mistype elements an attributes and what not. And both draconian error handeling as well as lack of feature adding helps us in analysing and finding errors.

Fine, go use a validator.  The W3C validator will happily tell you when 
you have an attribute that doesn't actually exist because you misspelled 
something.

>>> But if, as the HTML4 spec suggestes, «the [headers] attribute may also be 
>>> used in conjunction with style sheets», then suddenly we would be in 
>>> another situation. And authors would have insentives to use it and get it 
>>> right. The fact that no _visual_ stylesheets relies on the headers selector 
>>> _of course_ a) make headers little used, and b) does not create an author 
>>> incentive for creating correct syntax (i.e. for spelling headers right).
>>>
>>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#adef-headers>
>> The headers in question being referenced are going to be the elements with 
>> the corresponding IDs, which are already easily selected/styled today.
> 
> As if that is what I talk about. All data cells in a table can have different header cells. Each one. Headers is the only attribute that can act as a CSS pointer/selecetor from within the cell and out to the header cells.
> 
> Scope="" also need to become a usable as CSS selector btw, that would help author using scope ="" instead of headers=""! Think
> 
> th:scope{}
> 
> should sellect the scope of that particular header cell. This would also be helpful for visual designers. They could test what the scope="auto" would select and so on. And they could also use it in their visual design.

First you talk about styling the headers, now you change it to styling 
the cells.  When you decide what you want to do, please feel free to 
suggest it to the CSS Working Group.  Or to an authoring group, since 
basically you just want a tool for authors.

I actually support keeping headers, but this is not a case that does 
anything along that line.

Rest snipped out.
-- 
Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
w3c@accessibleinter.net
http://accessibleinter.net/
Received on Sunday, 3 June 2007 01:12:30 GMT

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