- From: Marghanita da Cruz <marghanita@ramin.com.au>
- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:30:41 +1000
- To: Chris Blouch <cblouch@aol.com>
- CC: joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie, Sander Tekelenburg <st@isoc.nl>, HTMLWG <public-html@w3.org>, wai-xtech@w3.org, Don Evans <donald.evans@corp.aol.com>
Chris Blouch wrote: > Two aspects that seem to be overlooked in the discussion. > > 1. While there is an expectation that alt should be used for alternative > equivalent text descriptions, in practice many browsers also use it for > their popup "tooltips". This had lead some site authors to assume the > purpose was more supplemental rather than alternative so they have > stored additional meta data rather than real descriptions. Hence we see > sites putting up "200x100 GIF Image July 12, 2007" as their alt text > instead of a real content description. While this is incorrect use of > the attribute, it is hardly a surprising assumption based on browser > behavior. As an HTML author, I use the alt text as a caption - the kind of additional information I tend to provide is Photographer or Artist's name. The 200x100 should be provided in the height/width attributes of the image. Date is useful. I also assume the alt text is used to index images. For example <http://images.google.com.au/images?gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&q=joel+tarling&btnG=Search+Images> I would like to see all browsers display the alt text and other attributes as a "mouseover" rather than with a right click for properties. > > 2. The problem with allowing images without alt attributes in some cases > is that this essentially writes a loop hole into the standard. This then > puts the burden on the standard to sufficiently constrict this loop hole > such that it can't be abused. Hardening any loophole in a set of rules > is difficult at best. We need look no further than laws of governing > bodies for examples. As for the presence of alt tags being provisionally > required, it would seem to be simpler to require them in all cases and > then move debate to defining the presence and quality of the > descriptions themselves, whether good, lousy or absent. At least this > makes for any easy minimum test, a test which many tools already > implement. Loopholes for poor or missing alt text would be a more > fertile ground for work in the standard, but still a quagmire. > > I suggest that missing alt text should be called out in a manner that > points out the author's mistake (either directly or via their tools). > Something like "Author did not provide alternative text" or whatever > wordsmithing is desired. This provides a means for discoverability by > others to feed back to the source that something is wrong. If Grandma > sees no tool tip or one that says just "undefined" she will ignore it. > If she sees a message pointing fingers at my failure to do something > right I might actually get an email from her. In other words, while the > tooltip and non-descriptive errors for alt text may not directly enable > users who need alternative content, it can enable other users to seek > out resolution to a problem that was previously invisible to many. > > CB > > joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie wrote: >> Sander Tekelenburg wrote: >> >>> I cannot imagine how alt="unknown" could be useful to anyone. >>> >> >> I am also at a loss to understand how this is useful. Is it expected >> that screen readers would read output "unknown" when they came across >> and image that used the attribute in this way? >> >> Josh >> >> >> -- Marghanita da Cruz http://www.ramin.com.au Phone: 0414 869202
Received on Wednesday, 22 August 2007 00:31:52 UTC