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Re: HTML Design Principles Review

From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:04:37 -0700
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-Id: <9450A8D0-D2F3-4351-98D5-3B04221084A6@apple.com>
To: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>

On Aug 16, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Dan Connolly wrote:

> On Thu, 2007-08-16 at 08:55 -0700, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> I've started reviewing the various feedback on the HTML Design
>> Principles draft <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/
>> DesignPrinciplesReview>. Here's my plan for organizing review:
> Hmm... I thought you were going to enumerate
> existing outstanding feedback.

There's been lots of feedback, but there are also still quite active  
conversations about many of the principles. Outstanding feedback has  
been both on the mailing list and in the wiki, and the  
ProposedDesignPrinciples wiki page will take a while to peel aprt into  

> In particular, I got the impression you knew about specific
> cases of feedback you could cite, rather than a blanket...
>> 4. Search the mailing list for past feedback and record it.
> I just went over the http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/dprv/ survey
> with Chris Wilson and updated it w.r.t the
> draft of 2007-08-16 12:26:51 in the wiki
> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples?action=recall&rev=89
> I was just about to issue the survey when I discovered your recent
> work in CVS. Now I'm not quite sure how to proceed. I'm going
> to think it over for just a bit; maybe you can phone me or
> contact me by IRC?
> I'd like to think that a survey in parallel with your work will be
> useful.

I'm glad to talk any time.

>> 1. Cleanup of existing draft. I started by removing the disputed
>> section.
> I don't see it in
> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples . Oh...
> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/html5/html-design-principles/ 
> Overview.html?rev=HEAD
> 1.4  2007/08/16 15:39:50
> that started as a copy of the wiki as of Jun 26; I gather some
> useful changes have been made since then, though I'm struggling
> to find exactly which ones.

Yes, that was created as the draft to take to publication - I'll  
review wiki changes since then (and remove the copy of the document on  
the wiki to avoid confusing people).

>> I will also make some minor changes for grammar cleanup and
>> such.
>> 2. Create wiki page for collecting feedback. I put a new page on the
>> wiki here for collecting feedback <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/DesignPrinciplesReview
>>> . See below for how to best provide feedback.
> I think a survey is a more efficient way to gather information about
> the level of _support_ for principles as well as critical feedback
> on them.

I'd be glad to hear a general sense of support level. But specific  
comments on how to improve the document are far more valuable, so I  
hope people will continue to do that as well.

>> 3. Remove content from existing page <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples
>>> and classify it on the feedback page. I will drop parts of that
>> page where the relation to the design principles document is unclear,
>> or where there is no justification for the suggested change.
>> 4. Search the mailing list for past feedback and record it.
>> 5. Make changes in response to feedback. In some cases I may start an
>> email thread to gather opinions on a certain point.
>> How to provide review comments:
>> I will do my best to track down the existing review feedback on the
>> wiki and in email. For new feedback please do the following:
>> - Send a message to <public-html@w3.org> with [HDP] at the start of
>> the subject line. I might miss emails in other threads that offer
>> design principles review, but I'll make sure to look at everything
>> marked [HDP].
>> - Please make sure your message contains the following:
>>     a. Which principle or principles you are addressing (or none, if
>> your comment is about introductory text or the like).
>>     b. What change you would like made.
>>     c. The reasoning behind your change.
>>     d. Whether your request is in your opinion an editorial change, a
>> substantive change (changes the meaning of the principle
>> significantly), a request to drop one of the principles in the draft,
>> or a request to add a new principle to the draft.
> That's always good advice.
>> - Before suggesting to remove a principle, please try to find ways
>> that it could be re-worded to remove your objections to it. I would
>> rather fix the principles we have now than throw them out, if  
>> possible.
> That presumes a critical mass of support for the principle
> before the suggestion. Perhaps we're at that point, but I'm
> inclined to do the survey to confirm.

If there isn't widespread support for any version of a principle, I  
think that will rapidly become clear in the email threads about it.
>> -  Before suggesting to add a principle, please try to make sure your
>> request isn't covered by existing principles.
>> - Optionally, link the resulting discussion thread on the wiki in the
>> appropriate section with a summary of arguments for and against.
> Which part of the wiki do you mean here?

I meant the new http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/DesignPrinciplesReview  

Received on Thursday, 16 August 2007 20:04:50 UTC

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