W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > April 2007

Re: About the Web Forms 2 proposal

From: John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:47:37 -0700
To: Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
Cc: Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org>, Matthew Raymond <mattraymond@earthlink.net>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, public-html@w3.org, Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer <sebastian@dreamlab.net>
Message-ID: <OF24E5EB21.96255A2C-ON882572CD.007C7952-882572CD.007D3649@ca.ibm.com>
Hi Daniel,

DG: I am deeply familiar with the implementation and deployment of such
forms in a 130,000 employees company. And I'm french living in France,
the true country of paroxystic bureaucracy where forms are a way of
life. You can't compete :-)

JB: I can appreciate that you have experienced some "fun" with forms 
problems given your
experience. But 130,000 is still far shy of the "millions" of people were 
are supposed to be 
considering (to quote from Tim BL's blog at 
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/blog/4).

Government to citizen forms are exactly what I have in mind, and that's 
millions per country.
But there are also financial organizations who want to be able to deliver 
similar functionality
related to international trading across multiple geos.

John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
IBM Victoria Software Lab
E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com 

Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer





Daniel Glazman <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com> 
04/29/2007 12:22 AM

To
John Boyer/CanWest/IBM@IBMCA
cc
Dave Raggett <dsr@w3.org>, Matthew Raymond <mattraymond@earthlink.net>, 
Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, public-html@w3.org, Sebastian 
Schnitzenbaumer <sebastian@dreamlab.net>
Subject
Re: About the Web Forms 2 proposal






John Boyer wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
> 
> I am deeply familiar with requirements of forms for vertical industries.

I am deeply familiar with the implementation and deployment of such
forms in a 130,000 employees company. And I'm french living in France,
the true country of paroxystic bureaucracy where forms are a way of
life. You can't compete :-)

> 1) Weaknesses in CSS should not be used as an excuse for limiting 
> innovation in HTML, otherwise limitations in HTML will then be used as 
> an excuse for limiting advancement of CSS.

My comment was unrelated to HTML and strictly limited to CSS.

> 2a) Verticals like insurance are finding huge benefits from XForms.  You 

> completely miss the point.  The spreadsheet was built to move power *out 

> of the hands* of expensive professionals and into the hands of people 
> closer to the domain experts.  XForms seeks the same effect now.  Before 

> high level language were invented, only expensive contractors were able 
> to maintain the machine language needed for computer programs.  Now 
> we're having the same thing happen with the machine language of the web, 

> and it's time to learn the high level language lesson again.

"Verticals" as you call them don't want another Oracle Forms given how
much they've paid for that for the last 15 years.

> 2b) Why on earth do you think XForms is different in spirit than the 
> "main content language's"?

I never said that. You are drawing your own conclusions here.

</Daniel>
Received on Monday, 30 April 2007 22:47:43 UTC

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