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Re: disposition of ISSUE 30 cited in bug 10967 insufficient

From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:56:06 -0500
Message-ID: <4CF564E6.3090303@intertwingly.net>
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
CC: public-html-a11y@w3.org, Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com, janina@rednote.net, mike@w3.org, mjs@apple.com
On 11/30/2010 03:36 PM, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote:
> aloha, paul!
>
> i'm emailing this rather than adding to the specific bug you commented
> upon because the comment contained in the forwarded bug report below to be
> extremely misleading, for in making longdesc obsolete, the chairs
> left HTML5 without a verbose description mechanism, which does NOT
> address the underlying problem -- that HTML5 lacks a native means of
> providing verbose descriptors and that before a feature which was
> added to HTML4 expressly to enhance the accessibility of the web, which
> is an issue FAR larger than any single bug, and an issue which MUST be
> redressed before HTML5 can advance...

Opening new bugs that cover the same territory is not the path forward. 
  In the decision for issue-30[1] is the following text:

Revisiting this Issue

This issue can be reopened if new information come up. Examples of 
possible relevant new information include:

     * use cases that specifically require longdesc,
     * evidence that correct usage is growing rapidly and that that
       growth is expected to continue, or
     * widespread interoperable implementation.

I believe that Laura is collecting this information.  The advice that 
both I and Maciej gave in September on this topic is still relevant today:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Sep/0495.html

- Sam Ruby

[1] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/att-0112/issue-30-decision.html

> in commenting on bug 10967, paul wrote, on behalf of the HTML WG chairs:
>
> ---------- Forwarded Message -----------
> From: bugzilla@jessica.w3.org
> To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
> Sent: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:05:59 +0000
> Subject: [Bug 10967] Add @desclink, a description link attr. for any
> embedded  element + figure
>
> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10967
>
> Paul Cotton<Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>  changed:
>
>             What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>             Keywords|                            |WGDecision
>               Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
>           Resolution|                            |WONTFIX
>
> --- Comment #8 from Paul Cotton<Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>  2010-11-30
> 20:05:58 UTC ---
> This bug is directly related to Issue-30:
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
>
> The HTML WG co-chairs believe that this bug has been addressed by the WG's
> decision on ISSUE-30.
>
> /paulc
> on behalf of the HTML WG co-chairs
> UNQUOTE
>
> this is factually incorrect -- yes, the chairs decided not to use
> longdesc as a verbose descriptor for HTML5, but the chairs did NOT
> suggest a substitute or improved mechanism for providing a verbose
> descriptor mechanism for HTML5
>
> if QUOTE The HTML WG co-chairs believe that this bug has been addressed
> by the WG's decision on ISSUE-30. UNQUOTE then they are sadly mistaken,
> as there still exists a gaping hole in HTML5 that was plugged by
> LONGDESC in HTML4 -- requirements for a verbose descriptor mechanism for
> HTML5 has been logged as a bug and has been identified by the HTML
> A11y TF bug-triage team as a priority, for in their disposition of
> ISSUE 30, the HTML WG chairs failed to address the missing functionality
> in HTML5 due to the removal of LONGDESC
>
> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853
>
> a fuller exploration of the issue and its potential solutions, plus
> use cases, research etc. can be found at:
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
>
> from which bug 10853 was excerpted
>
> the failure of the HTML WG chairs to suggest or solicit a replacement
> for LONGDESC has already been the foundation of at least 2 notices of
> formal objections, and is a MAJOR issue blocking HTML5's progress to
> Last Call -- could the chairs PLEASE stop simply citing their
> decision on ISSUE 30 as "the final word", since it clearly is not
> the final word on the issue of providing verbose descriptor since
> such a mechanism is no longer part of HTML5 as per the chairs'
> decision on ISSUE 30
>
> thank you, gregory.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of
> focus.                                           -- Mark Twain
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net
>     Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
>            Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 30 November 2010 20:57:39 GMT

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