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clarification of resolution agreed-to at 2010-04 F2F

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:33:30 +0100
To: public-html-a11y@w3.org, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
Cc: Denis Boudreau <dboudreau@webconforme.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20100422173110.M16254@hicom.net>
aloha, again, shelley!

the resolution logged at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-html-a11y-minutes.html#item06

QUOTE
RESOLUTION: The TF opposes the change proposals to remove the elements 
listed above. We maintain the work item to check them and make them 
good.
UNQUOTE

should have been (if the sed syntax and rrsagent had been cooperating) 
amended to read:

RESOLUTION: The TF opposes the change proposals to remove the elements 
listed above. We maintain the work item to check them and make them 
better harmonized with ARIA semantics.

janina, mike and mike, let me know if i am reading the minutes wrong
on this, but i think it pretty clear that the second articulation of
the RESOLUTION listed above is what we "actually" agreed-to at the 
april 2010 f2f, gregory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The present moment is ever the critical time. The future is merely for 
intelligent forethought.                                -- Robert Barr
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
     Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus
                  Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus
----------------------------------------------------------------------


---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
To: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org, Denis Boudreau <dboudreau@webconforme.com>, 
Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>
Sent: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:12:07 +0100
Subject: Re: General Response to the Accessibility Task force on Issues 
90, 91, 93, 96, 97

> aloha, shelley!
> 
> i quick point -- during the Face2Face, we DID stop to read each 
> and every one of your proposals as a group, and anyone who had
> not previously read your proposals was explictly asked to do so
> by Janina and MikeSmith before commenting or voting...
> 
> unfortunately, given the dynamic of a face2face, minutes often 
> don't capture the amount of time spent on each item, oft leaving
> the impression that things were only alluded-to in passing...  
> let me assure you, shelley, that -- from my perspective as a 
> remote attendee at the face2face -- every effort was made by the 
> chairs to give your proposals their due consideration, and there 
> was a minority who wanted to "unbunch" your issues to discuss 
> them individually; indeed, the issues you raised were considered 
> 1 by 1 by the face2face, but -- finding what it perceived as 
> common threads -- it was decided by a majority of participants 
> that each issue you raised could be addressed in a comprehensive,
>  rather than detailed manner; this disagreement is captured in 
> the results of the survey on the proposals considered at the face2face:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/200404_ftf-proposals/results#xq5
> 
> gregory.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
> as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them 
> with others.         -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>              Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
>   Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
> To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
> Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org, Denis Boudreau 
> <dboudreau@webconforme.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>,
>  "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>
> Sent: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:00:11 -0500 Subject: Re: General 
> Response to the Accessibility Task force on Issues 90, 91, 93, 
> 96, 97
> 
> > I appreciate the link to meeting minutes.
> > 
> > I hope a more formal synopsis of the discussion is documented, 
> > so that I can respond individually to the items. As it was,
> >  there seemed to be only 4 or 5 people involved, and not 
> > everyone seemed to disagree with my arguments.
> > 
> > There were, also, flat out errors in some of the statements 
> > made. the same as there are flat out errors in the counter-
> > proposal. However, I can respond directly to the counter-
> > proposal errors, but it's difficult to do the same with the 
> > abbreviated summary given in meeting minutes.
> > 
> > In addition, it would seem that not every person in the 
> > discussion actually read my change proposals. The discussion 
> > definitely didn't touch on many of the issues I discussed 
> > related to the elements.
> > 
> > For instance, neither the counter-proposal, nor the accessibility
> > group seem to have addressed the issue of the whether these elements
> > are going to achieve broad usage. The HTML5 elements are 
> > inferior to the state of the art. It may be an inconvenient 
> > truth, but web authors/developers are not going to use inferior 
options.
> > 
> > Neither the resolution nor the counter-proposal mentioned the 
> > costs to communities outside of the accessibility community or 
> > the browser implementor community. Other than a vague reference 
> > to having to write tutorials.
> > 
> > There is real cost to other web communities, and not to weigh the
> > costs to other communities in the decisions is, well frankly,
> > irresponsible.
> > 
> > Now, the group may balance the costs against benefits, but from the
> > discussion, the group seemed to see no cost at all. In fact, the
> > decision making seemed to be cavalier about potential negative impacts
> > to other groups.
> > 
> > Again, I thank you for the link. Unfortunately, it generates more
> > questions rather than provides answers.
> > 
> > Shelley
> ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------
Received on Thursday, 22 April 2010 17:34:30 GMT

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