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Re: clarification of resolution agreed-to at 2010-04 F2F

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:27:17 -0400
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>, Denis Boudreau <dboudreau@webconforme.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100422182717.GF2311@sonata.rednote.net>
Thanks, Gregory. You are correct.

While I attempted to make the correction by hand in my email submission,
I obviously caught one correction, but not the second.

Janina

Gregory J. Rosmaita writes:
> aloha, again, shelley!
> 
> the resolution logged at:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-html-a11y-minutes.html#item06
> 
> QUOTE
> RESOLUTION: The TF opposes the change proposals to remove the elements 
> listed above. We maintain the work item to check them and make them 
> good.
> UNQUOTE
> 
> should have been (if the sed syntax and rrsagent had been cooperating) 
> amended to read:
> 
> RESOLUTION: The TF opposes the change proposals to remove the elements 
> listed above. We maintain the work item to check them and make them 
> better harmonized with ARIA semantics.
> 
> janina, mike and mike, let me know if i am reading the minutes wrong
> on this, but i think it pretty clear that the second articulation of
> the RESOLUTION listed above is what we "actually" agreed-to at the 
> april 2010 f2f, gregory.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The present moment is ever the critical time. The future is merely for 
> intelligent forethought.                                -- Robert Barr
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
>      Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus
>                   Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
> To: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
> Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org, Denis Boudreau <dboudreau@webconforme.com>, 
> Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>
> Sent: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:12:07 +0100
> Subject: Re: General Response to the Accessibility Task force on Issues 
> 90, 91, 93, 96, 97
> 
> > aloha, shelley!
> > 
> > i quick point -- during the Face2Face, we DID stop to read each 
> > and every one of your proposals as a group, and anyone who had
> > not previously read your proposals was explictly asked to do so
> > by Janina and MikeSmith before commenting or voting...
> > 
> > unfortunately, given the dynamic of a face2face, minutes often 
> > don't capture the amount of time spent on each item, oft leaving
> > the impression that things were only alluded-to in passing...  
> > let me assure you, shelley, that -- from my perspective as a 
> > remote attendee at the face2face -- every effort was made by the 
> > chairs to give your proposals their due consideration, and there 
> > was a minority who wanted to "unbunch" your issues to discuss 
> > them individually; indeed, the issues you raised were considered 
> > 1 by 1 by the face2face, but -- finding what it perceived as 
> > common threads -- it was decided by a majority of participants 
> > that each issue you raised could be addressed in a comprehensive,
> >  rather than detailed manner; this disagreement is captured in 
> > the results of the survey on the proposals considered at the face2face:
> > 
> > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/200404_ftf-proposals/results#xq5
> > 
> > gregory.
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils,
> > as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them 
> > with others.         -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >              Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
> >   Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
> > To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
> > Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org, Denis Boudreau 
> > <dboudreau@webconforme.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>,
> >  "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>
> > Sent: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:00:11 -0500 Subject: Re: General 
> > Response to the Accessibility Task force on Issues 90, 91, 93, 
> > 96, 97
> > 
> > > I appreciate the link to meeting minutes.
> > > 
> > > I hope a more formal synopsis of the discussion is documented, 
> > > so that I can respond individually to the items. As it was,
> > >  there seemed to be only 4 or 5 people involved, and not 
> > > everyone seemed to disagree with my arguments.
> > > 
> > > There were, also, flat out errors in some of the statements 
> > > made. the same as there are flat out errors in the counter-
> > > proposal. However, I can respond directly to the counter-
> > > proposal errors, but it's difficult to do the same with the 
> > > abbreviated summary given in meeting minutes.
> > > 
> > > In addition, it would seem that not every person in the 
> > > discussion actually read my change proposals. The discussion 
> > > definitely didn't touch on many of the issues I discussed 
> > > related to the elements.
> > > 
> > > For instance, neither the counter-proposal, nor the accessibility
> > > group seem to have addressed the issue of the whether these elements
> > > are going to achieve broad usage. The HTML5 elements are 
> > > inferior to the state of the art. It may be an inconvenient 
> > > truth, but web authors/developers are not going to use inferior 
> options.
> > > 
> > > Neither the resolution nor the counter-proposal mentioned the 
> > > costs to communities outside of the accessibility community or 
> > > the browser implementor community. Other than a vague reference 
> > > to having to write tutorials.
> > > 
> > > There is real cost to other web communities, and not to weigh the
> > > costs to other communities in the decisions is, well frankly,
> > > irresponsible.
> > > 
> > > Now, the group may balance the costs against benefits, but from the
> > > discussion, the group seemed to see no cost at all. In fact, the
> > > decision making seemed to be cavalier about potential negative impacts
> > > to other groups.
> > > 
> > > Again, I thank you for the link. Unfortunately, it generates more
> > > questions rather than provides answers.
> > > 
> > > Shelley
> > ------- End of Original Message -------
> ------- End of Original Message -------

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
		sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
Received on Thursday, 22 April 2010 18:28:14 GMT

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