John Boyer, IBM (chair)
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes)
Nick van den Bleeken, Inventive Designers
Charlie Wiecha, IBM
Erik Bruchez, Orbeon
Uli Lissé, DreamLabs
allhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Apr/0020.html
Nick van: I haven't updated based
on the Ubiquity changes; what has changed?
John Boyer: Ubiquity 4.2.4.a
xforms-model-destruct. Leigh has tested with the Firefox
plugin.
Nick van: We have to merge that
in.
John Boyer: And decide to first.
John Boyer: Also we pass 10.4.f in
Ubiquity+IE and Ubiquity+FireFox, for our two implementations. The
issue is the interplate between the delete action and repeat index
management, with the increased specificity of the specification. We
have different conformance levels for IE and Firefox.
Leigh Klotz: I see IE8 is popping up,
and Google Chrome is doing silent updates, so have you started
testing IE8 yet?
John Boyer: Right now we're testign
Firefox 3 and IE7.
John Boyer: We have 11.1.v in
Ubiquity+Firefox but not checked in yet.
John Boyer: We're working on 11.9.4.b
as well. The remaining ones are 8.1.10.a and 11.9.4.b, which we are
working on.
John Boyer: Any objections to adopting Leigh's new test? None?
Resolution 2009-05-6.1: We adopt Leigh's test of
xforms-model-destruct with load/@show=new in
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Apr/0021.html
John Boyer: It works in
Ubiquity+IE; in Ubiquity+Firefox we allow the popup. The next
report will show it, but we should have all of these done by the
end of the week.
Nick van: Can you ask them to update
the test cases for the version exception?
John Boyer: I noted that and will get
it done on the Ubiquity copy.
Nick van: I'll update it.
John Boyer: Do you need an
action?
John Boyer: It doesn't matter.
John Boyer: I sent mail about it and Eric responded; the issue is that xforms-submission has to work with http and https, and XML and url-encoded serialization. A reasonable way to send mail is the "mailto:" scheme in the URL of a submission, and we have two tests: 11.9.r and 11.9.p. 11.9.r uses url-encoded, so all of the instance data is attached as tag-value pairs. There are no other implementation reports other than Ubiquity on mailto. Ubiquity can't get to multipart-post. We're not testing all variations here; we're proving it's reasonable as an optional feature that you could send mail with optional submission. We two such passing tests. You just can't send mail with every type of xforms submission right now, and claim we should get rid of the test because it's an unnecessary blocker.
Leigh Klotz: If I could figure out
where Chiba was right now I'd go implement it but I can't at the
moment.
Nick van: I could do it too but don't
have time.
Leigh Klotz: It's pretty obvious which
implementations could easily provide mailto with multipart/related
but don't happen to and which can't. Since it's an optional
feature, I don't see the need to test every combination. mailto is
clearly implementable in at least some processors.
John Boyer: We are showing an
implementation of the optional feature, and we have it
urlencoded-post in Ubiquity+IE and Ubiquity+Firefox. We have
Ubiquity+IE working with form-data-post as well.
Resolution 2009-05-6.2: We remove test for optional feature optional feature 11.9.p because the optional feature itself is tested in 11.9.r, and rename 11.9.r to 11.9.p.
Action 2009-05-6.1: Nick van den Bleeken to remove test for optional feature optional feature 11.9.p because the optional feature itself is tested in 11.9.r, and rename 11.9.r to 11.9.p by next week.
John Boyer: Nick, can you do this
now that Keith agrees with Leigh that Firefox passes thsi
test?
Nick van: xforms-value-changed on
upload?
Nick van: I think I already did it,
but if not I'll do it.
John Boyer: Are there any test-suite action items we can defer?
Leigh Klotz: My Action 2009 03-18.1 is done.
Charlie Wiecha: I have some for
Appendex B (9, 11, and 14 tests).
John Boyer: I have those too.
Charlie Wiecha: I took them but you
suggested it instead, so I'm listed incorrectly.
Charlie Wiecha: There's also the
xsi:nil test.
Nick van: I need to update the
license.
John Boyer: Not until we're ready to
publish.
Nick van: I've updated the colors.
John Boyer: Converting the drivers to XHTML (Uli) is nice but not necessary for this week.
John Boyer: Leigh, any test-suite
related actions?
Leigh Klotz: None I could see.
John Boyer: You have a test b.14
action as well, probably a duplicate.
Erik Bruchez: I have a bunch of them,
including that one.
John Boyer: The b.14 one will probably
get done by someone else.
Erik Bruchez: We need to fix the ref
and and add mediatype.
John Boyer: ...
Erik Bruchez: ... group label
...
John Boyer: OK, tell the group which
changes you make since Ubiquity has a copy.
Leigh Klotz: You could use XSLT.
John Boyer: We have to hand-edit the
results of the XSLT.
John Boyer: For the targetid issue,
how do we want to handle that from the test suite
perspective?
Nick van: We decided that I was going
to add the attributes to the tests and make the other tests not
required.
John Boyer: How many tests? Do we have
to update all of them? Do we just make sure that targetid is
represented?
Nick van: Tests that depend on
optional or deprecated attributes.
John Boyer: I'm having misgivings
about this change, so late in the process. There may be issues with
Ubiquity+IE or Ubiquity+Firefox.
Nick van: ...
John Boyer: But I guess we'll have to
go forward with those.
Leigh Klotz: Is that any change from
status quo?
Nick van: We recapped what we said
last week.
allJohn Boyer: I have action item
about replace=all errors. Did we change the tests to
say you don't get them on a replace all?
Leigh Klotz: I have a vague
recollection that we dropped a test, perhaps at the F2F.
John Boyer: I see; some tests have
already been changed.
John Boyer: I see some tests I need to
confirm are the latest ones.
John Boyer: It would be helpful if
we worked on 1.2 and 2.0 themes and requirements rather than
attacking a laundry list. We can pass this to the rechartering, as
our charter expires at the end of the year.
Charlie Wiecha: Move vote would be to
make the transition away from Forms and into the RIA space. We
could also discuss extensibility to HTML6. It might be nice to see
if we can get Sam Ruby to join for conversation by phone.
John Boyer: Interestingly, we also
have our Virtual Day June 4th.
John Boyer: Steven asked that we
consider the rechartering. There's XForms for HTML as well.
John Boyer: I'll ask for a sign-up
sheet.
Charlie Wiecha: Mark was talking
about a Tuesday evening event.
John Boyer: Maybe we can end early
that day.
John Boyer: If there isn't going to
be an evening event, then holding it in Amsterdam would make more
sense as we get Steven.
Nick van: It's getting a bit
late.
Charlie Wiecha: He sent a note a week
or so ago.
Nick van: For me, it was vague.
Charlie Wiecha: Yes, we need to follow
up on that.
John Boyer: For 1.2/2.0, merging
recalculation and revalidation seems huge, but putting src on model
doesn't.
Charlie Wiecha: Structural
transformation in binds, for Backplane.
John Boyer: It's on the 2.0
list.
Charlie Wiecha: I'm revoting. And the
notion of applying the data-dependency graph document-wide.
Leigh Klotz: To the UI?
Charlie Wiecha: Yes.
John Boyer: Those sound like the gray
area of the non-fine-line of 1.2/2.0.
Charlie Wiecha: They feel less far out
because others people are doing them. Structural transformation
might affect the rebuild loop. But document-wide constraint
functions is getting more real all the time.
John Boyer: It's re-using the same
concepts. The atomic operations are still going to be expressed in
stuff we already have. If you did the equivalent of a calculate to
attach a tree, it would probably still involve an insert.
Charlie Wiecha: Or if you use xquery
update, how do you track the dependency logic?
John Boyer: So let's talk next week and decide how rigorously we want to define 1.2 and 2.0 in the charter document.
Leigh Klotz: We spend a lot of time
saying we're doing small things and they turn into medium things.
We could do like HTML5 and say we're doing one big thing for three
years, and then the publish other documents in the interim.
John Boyer: Let's talk next week.