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RE: [fr] translations for new properties

From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:57:17 +0200
To: "Charles McCathieNevile" <chaals@opera.com>, <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
Message-ID: <GOEIKOOAMJONEFCANOKCGEHMGPAA.bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>


Charles

Thanks for the suggestions for french translation. If I look at your spanish translation for skos:symbol (my understanding of spanish goes that far)

 <rdfs:comment xml:lang="en">This property is roughly analogous to  
rdfs:label, but for labelling resources with images that have gettable  
representations, rather than RDF literals.</rdfs:comment>
   <rdfs:comment xml:lang="es">Esta propiedad es un analogo a rdfs:label,  
pero para dar a un recurso una etiqueta de forma grafica descargabile de  
la red en vez de texto sólo.</rdfs:comment>

Your "descargabile de la red" is more explicit than the english original, which seems to have been problematic also for the german translator. The same in french would be indeed "téléchargeable sur le Web" rather than "addressable".

But since the range of skos:symbol is  dcmitype:image should not we stick to the definition given by DCMI? 
"An image is a primarily symbolic visual representation other than text. For example - images and photographs of physical objects, paintings, prints, drawings, other images and graphics, animations and moving pictures, film, diagrams, maps, musical notation. Note that image may include both electronic and physical representations."
The last sentence seems to let the door open to images which are identified as physical but not "gettable" representations. Actually the datatype of skos:symbol is not specified, otherwise said one could have a value which identifies an image, but does not "get" an image. For example, instead of "http://www.ast67.org/symboles/015.jpg" have a text value such as "a black image of a smoking cigarette, over an interdiction red slashed circle" or, better, the normative description of "no smoking" pictogram in the relevant international code, which I discovered happens to be namely ISO 3864-1. Supposing ISO would put this definition somewhere on line for free, instead of asking $100 for downloading the standard, would a link to this definition be ruled out as a skos:symbol value? 
I guess implicitly you exclude this kind of value by "gettable", but given the absence of datatype I'm not sure it's completely ruled out by neither SKOS nor DCMI definitions. 

Thoughts?

Bernard

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : public-esw-thes-request@w3.org
> [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]De la part de Charles
> McCathieNevile
> Envoyé : samedi 8 octobre 2005 03:14
> À : Bernard Vatant; public-esw-thes@w3.org
> Objet : Re: [fr] translations for new properties
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:03:08 +0200, Bernard Vatant  
> <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com> wrote:
> 
> > And there is a potential clash with "gettable representation" to  
> > translate also, which I'm
> > not sure I got properly. Does "gettable" means that you can get the  
> > image somehow over the
> > network, meaning that the URI value of a skos:symbol actually  
> > *retrieves* an image?
> > Assuming that, I've translated it by "adressable", which is the best I  
> > could find ...
> > there is no french verb as flexible as "get" ...
> 
> I would suggest "téléchargeable" or perhaps "recuperable"... But then,  
> "gettable" is not much as an english word either, so maybe if you want to  
> keep to the spirit of the original...
> 
> cheers
> 
> Chaals
> 
> > <rdf:Property rdf:ID="symbol">
> >   <rdfs:label xml:lang="fr">représentation symbolique</rdfs:label>
> >   <skos:definition xml:lang="fr">Une image qui est une représentation  
> > symbolique de la
> > ressource</skos:definition>
> >   <rdfs:comment xml:lang="fr">Cette propriété est à peu près analogue à  
> > rdfs:label, mais
> > pour l'étiquetage de ressources par des images qui ont des  
> > représentations addressables,
> > plutôt que par des littéraux RDF.</rdfs:comment>
> > </rdf:Property>
> 
> -- 
> Charles McCathieNevile                      chaals@opera.com
>           hablo español - je parle français - jeg lærer norsk
>          Web dreams are free:   http://www.opera.com/download
> 
Received on Saturday, 8 October 2005 08:57:46 GMT

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