- From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:13:35 +0100
- To: xmlschema-dev@w3.org
Hello schema devs. Can a XSD-based processor validate that a XHTML5 document contains the HTML5 DOCTYPE type declaration? And can it do so without resorting hacks? Can it be expressed in the XSD-language itself, or must the processor performa an initial 'DTD-mode' check? Note: The HTML5 DOCTYPE *declaration* doesn't reference a DOCTYPE *definition*, so I do not ask if XSD can validate the 'ExternalID' or 'intSubset' part of the DOCTYEP declaration. I only wonder if XSD allows checking that the 'name' part of the DOCTYPE matches the 'root element type'. Since it is well-formed to include DOCTYPE declaration without a DTD, and since XSD moves the validation from DTD to, well XSD, it ought, it seems, be possible to use XSD to verify that the DOCTYPE declaration contains the name of the root element (the same way that XSD allows checking many things that, per XML 1.0, does not fall under XML 1.0’s validity concept). Background for my question is that XML editors/processors nowadays tend to be schema based, even when a DTD is references. And hence, if XSD doesn’t validate the DOCTYPE *declaration*, XSD could in fact label constructs like this as 'validating': <!DOCTYPE NotTheHtmlRootElement> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head><title></title> </head><body><p/></body></html> And in fact, it seems most XSD processor do say that the above is validating. For example Libxml2 in XSD mode does. Just ask xmllint to apply the XHTML 1.1 XSD[1] to a XHTML 1.1 doc with '<DOCTYPE HTML' instead of '<DOCTYPE html'[2]: xmllint --schema http://tinyurl.com/a9lrvfq http://tinyurl.com/bkhk86p Even the well known Oxygen editor, which (by default) uses Xerces, does in the abvoe case behave like Libxml2. Now, if we move focus to processors that only consider DTD-validity, then both the rxp processor and Libxml2 in DTD mode reports, for the above document, that validation could not be performed due to lack of DTD: rxp -V http://tinyurl.com/bkhk86p xmllint --valid http://tinyurl.com/bkhk86p However, in the presence of a (supported) SYSTEM ID/URI, the some processor are triggered into DTD-validation mode even if the ID/URI leads nowhere, meaning that they check that the root element matches root name in the document type declaration. Libxml2 (xmllint) does in fact behave that way (even if it also, in that case, reports that the root elements hasn’t been delcared.) By the way: If we remove the XSD specific attributes from the markup of the above test document, then Oxygen (Xerces) does in fact complain that the root element doesn't match the document type declaration. And it does so *without* complaining that the rest of the markup is invalid. Is this because oXygen uses a XSD schema that includes DOCTYPE validation? Or is it because it uses "DTD mode" for the DOCTYPE, and then XSD mode for the rest of the document? SOME "PHILOSOPHIC" QUESTIONS: According to XML 1.0, "validity constraints" apply to all valid documents. Does XML by this mean "all DTD-valid documents", noly? This is relevant since XML says that it is a validity constraint that the DOCTYPE declaration matches the root. Thus, it seems to me that if this validity constrain does *not* apply to XSD, then XSD processor are, in fact, not validating processors. (I.e. "validating processor" per XML 1.0, then means "DTD-validating processor".) If so, then in one way, it is unlucky that 'validity' is used by anything other than DTD-validity. RELATED COMMENTS: 1) On one side, There seems to be confusion within the XML community about the HTML5 doctype declaration. For example the XMLmind xml editor developers (which has developed as XSD for XHTML5) had let themselves convince that the HTML5 doctype was not well-formed - only when I made them aware of Polyglot Markup, did they realize that it was well-formed to include the HTML5 DOCTYPE.[3] 2) And on the other - but related(sic!) - side, we have the fact that HTML5 doesn’t declare any "official" XHTML5 doctype declaration, which is a reflection of the general, sceptic attitude in the XML community these days, towards document type declarations and document type definitions. Which more specifically is related to a focus on well-formed as "good enough" (not to say "difficult enough") on one side, as well as a focus on "better" methods for validations - namely XML schemas. 3) But perhaps HTML5 goes a little bit too far, right now: Surely HTML5 could at least say that, if a DOCTYPE declaration is used, then the 'name' part of the 'doctypedecl' should match the root element of the docuement?!? FINALLY: My focus with this letter, is XML processor’s ability to validate/create XHTML5 document that, as far as the *DOCTYPE declaration* is concerned, are polyglot. PS: I note with interest that the XSD schema files for the XSD language itself, themselves (some of them) include document type declarations. And so I wonder: What would happen if one altered the root names declared by the document type declaration in those XSD documents? Would XSD-based processor stop working … ? [1] http://tinyurl.com/as3k455 [2] http://tinyurl.com/a9lrvfq [3] http://www.xmlmind.com/pipermail/xmleditor-support/2013-January/010268.html -- leif halvard silli
Received on Thursday, 14 February 2013 06:14:09 UTC