- From: Pete Cordell <petexmldev@tech-know-ware.com>
- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 17:11:02 +0100
- To: "Michael Kay" <mike@saxonica.com>, <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
- Cc: <xmlschema-dev@w3.org>
----- Original Message From: "Michael Kay" To: "'Pete Cordell'" > I think there are a number of processors that are very close to complete > conformance, and it's very hard to capture their remaining restrictions on > a > simple tick-list. > ... > You'd need a pretty long feature list to capture things at that level of > granularity. I agree it would have to be quite detailed to be useful. It wouldn't be a simple 20 point check list, or something one could knock up over a weekend. Then nothing is ever simple with XSD! On the other hand, more than 150 points and it will lose usefulness also. I think that we compare well on conformance also. There are a few things we want to do to improve more, but by the end of the year I'd hope we were in the 99% region. If the rest of the industry is in a similar position, maybe such an exercise is not worth undertaking. Pete. -- ============================================= Pete Cordell Tech-Know-Ware Ltd for XML to C++ data binding visit http://www.tech-know-ware.com/lmx (or http://www.xml2cpp.com) ============================================= >> >> Dear Noah, >> >> While I see your point, I feel that XML schema is about 10 to >> 20 times more >> complex than an XML parser (a rough estimate based on implementation >> experience). Therefore, it isn't necessarily appropriate to >> extrapolate >> what has worked well for XML to XML schema. >> >> I also wouldn't expect vendors to fill in a feature profile >> and never work >> on their code again. Quite the contrary - I can see that a >> feature matrix >> could be quite a battle ground and motivator for vendors to implement >> features so that they can out do their competition. This >> would ratchet up >> the level of support among vendors. >> >> The result would be that customers would have a clear picture >> of what is >> available, and vendors would know where they need to do >> better. If feature >> support wasn't 100% after a while, standards people could go on about >> vendors not properly implementing standards and add pressure >> based on hard >> evidence! Looks Win-Win-Win to me! >> >> Regards, >> >> Pete. >> ____________________ >> Original Message From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com> >> >> > Pete Cordell writes: >> > >> >> I don't know whether this has been suggested >> >> before, but as an alternative to defining domain >> >> specific profiles of XSD, maybe the W3C can define >> >> an official, standard checklist of features that >> >> vendors can fill-in and display on their web >> >> sites. This would give customers an equal basis >> >> for assessing products, and give vendors guidance >> >> on where they can improve their products. >> > >> > I think that encouraging vendors to be honest about the >> status of their >> > products is a good thing, but appearing to encourage >> subsets is not. How >> > would we feel if for XML itself we suggested a checklist >> along the lines >> > of: >> > >> > _ do you support attributes? >> > >> > _ do you support entities? >> > >> > _ do you support the short form of empty tags? >> > >> > _ do you handle whitespace correctly? >> > >> > >> > etc. XML interoperability would be seriously damaged. The >> point of XML >> > is that you don't get a choice about these things and we >> don't encourage >> > reporting of subsets. We tell you not to claim you're >> XML-compatible >> > until you do all of these things. As a result, customers >> find that XML >> > interoperability is pretty good. >> > >> > The same concern applies to schema. While a few vendors >> are still having >> > particular trouble and that is causing unfortunate confusion, my >> > impression is that a number of the more careful XML schema >> validators are >> > showing quite good conformance and interoperability. Of >> course, there are >> > some things like data binding tools that aren't even trying >> to support the >> > whole language, though some of the things they subset are in XML not >> > schema (e.g. mixed content.) >> > >> > Bottom line: while schema does have well known complexity >> issues, I think >> > we should be very reluctant to promote ad-hoc subsetting in >> particular >> > implementations. I'm afraid that publishing a matrix in >> which you can >> > document your non-conformance may appear to do just that. >> > >> > If you're talking about things like databinding tools, I >> support what I >> > took to be the consensus of the recent schema workshop: >> tools should >> > support all of schema and XML, but should optimize the >> subsets most likely >> > to be heavily used and/or a good match to the environment. >> A checklist to >> > document such a subset may make sense, and I think that as >> a result of the >> > workshop the W3C is considering a closer look at that area. >> > >> > -------------------------------------- >> > Noah Mendelsohn >> > IBM Corporation >> > One Rogers Street >> > Cambridge, MA 02142 >> > 1-617-693-4036 >> > -------------------------------------- >> > >> >> >> -- >> ============================================= >> Pete Cordell >> Tech-Know-Ware Ltd >> for XML to C++ data binding visit >> http://www.tech-know-ware.com/lmx >> (or http://www.xml2cpp.com) >> ============================================= >> >> >> > > > >
Received on Thursday, 4 August 2005 16:11:49 UTC