- From: Graham Klyne <GK@Dial.pipex.com>
- Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:52:34 +0100
- To: David Carlisle <david@dcarlisle.demon.co.uk>
- Cc: xml-uri@w3.org
At 12:16 PM 6/8/00 +0100, David Carlisle wrote:
> > Ignoring, for now, issues of relative and context-dependent URIs. If a
> > namespace is a resource, and a namespace name is a URI: what resource is
> > identified by that URI? Logically, it is the namespace
>
>"logically" is rather a contentious word to use:-)
Sorry, best I could come up with :-)
>Some people have the mistaken belief that namespaces and schema are
>effectively the same thing, ...
I've not detected such belief held explicitly. My concern is that it might
be an unintended logical consequence of the other desiderata
expressed. (And this time I _mean_ "logical" :-)
> > There is, I think, a related issue: I had thought that content
> negotiation
> > might be used to select different representations of a schema associated
>
>How would content negotiation distinguish which of the 5 or 6 so far
>published schema (dtd) for the xhtml namespace you want to use, or
>which of the arbitrary many schema for the same namespace that you can
>create using xhtml modularisation?
When one does a "GET", or equivalent operation, on the resource URI,
indicating what are acceptable versions of the resource; e.g.
Accept: text/html -- for the document describing the schema
language
Accept: application/rdf-xml -- for the RDF schema
(etc.)
Any of these might be reasonable versions, or "renderings", of the
semantics bound to a schema identifier. (The use of accept and
content-type's here is merely illustrative -- a practical negotiation
scheme would need to be more subtle.)
But this view requires that specific schema documents are accessible as
_part_ of some more abstract semantic resource, possibly as well as
distinct resources in their own right.
> > I think a basic formal algebra of URIs and resources might help to set
> > some of these issues in place.
>
>If there is no agreement on whether namespaces are the resources
>identified by the URI used as the namespace names then I don't see how
>any such algebra is going to help.
In my previous response to Al Gilman's posting [1], I tried to explore
separating the use of a namespace name as simple mechanism for syntactic
discrimination between namespaces used from the more demanding goal of
providing sufficient information to identify some associated semantics
("binding to semantics" was Al Gilman's phrase, which I interpret
differently than "retrieving a schema").
Within web architecture as I understand it, treating the namespace as a
resource is the favoured way of binding to semantics. Absent this goal,
then the (appropriately distinguishable) name of any resource would seem to
be sufficient, as you say.
But, a formal algebra may help to make it clear what additional
requirements must be imposed on such URIs if they are to serve the
additional purposes of binding to semantics, IMO.
>I claim http://www.dcarlisle.demon.co.uk is the URI representing
>the "home page" of myself and my wife. Since I pay to have that
>URI work, and I wrote the page in question, I think it is reasonable
>for me to assert that that is the resource identified by that URI.
>
>Now any namespace processor, without having read the above paragraph
>has to decide what to do with
>
><x xmlns="http://www.dcarlisle.demon.co.uk"/>
[...]
>Tim Berners-Lee and Dan Connolly have asserted that my doing that
>is somehow wrong, but no one has ever suggested any change
>that would make that wrong. Or what the namespace processor is
>supposed to do to reject the document.
My view is that that's fine if all you want to do is syntax-level
distinction between namespace prefix usage in some documents.
But if you want to do more --have some globally accessible meaning
associated with use of the namespace-- then the choice of your home page
URI is inappropriate. I happen to think that this kind of binding to
semantics is a supremely important goal for the future of networked
information.
<soapbox>
Or: should semantics be bound to the data, or to the application that
processes the data? Currently, mostly what we do is the latter, but I
think that approach is not ultimately scalable. Should the data dictate
what applications I can use to process it? The Internet has given us an
end-to-end architecture for communications, and witness the explosion of
possibilities that has brought. But what about content? Should its
meaning be bound up in the murky innards of the specific applications that
generate and process it, or should it be open to new uses by new
applications? Where is our end-to-end architecture for content?
</soapbox>
The reason for my <soapbox> is to suggest that there may be some really
compelling reasons for looking beyond the literal interpretation of
namespace matching in the namespace REC.
Having said that, I find myself wondering if "fixing" the namespace REC is
the best way forward. If there is a constituency for whom it serves a
useful purpose, why change? Maybe, a new document that explicitly
addresses some higher goals and sets out additional constraints on
namespace usage that must be observed to address those goals might be a
more productive approach?
#g
--
[1] (Working offline, so no archive URI -- sorry.)
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 17:17:10 -0500
To: <xml-uri@w3.org>
From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
Subject: Re: stepping backward (one more step)
------------
Graham Klyne
(GK@ACM.ORG)
Received on Thursday, 8 June 2000 11:56:14 UTC