- From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:24:23 -0400
- To: Marc Hadley <Marc.Hadley@Sun.COM>
- Cc: Rich Salz <rsalz@datapower.com>, Tony Graham <Tony.Graham@Sun.COM>, "xml-dist-app@w3.org" <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
I >think< there is a relatively obvious path to follow in the case of PASWA. one that would be very much in the spirit of incremental evolution that's characterized SOAP itself. In PASWA, the message is the Envelope infoset. Any efforts to carry parts of the data in binary are merely optimizations and are not visible at the SOAP processing level. The data we think of as attachments is at least conceptually present in the form of base64 character encodings. As Rich has pointed out, there is some momentum toward using the already published exclusive canonicalization as the basis for WS-Security, a least in the short to medium term. We all agree that exclusive canonicalization will work with such an Infoset, and the only question is whether an alternative approach might leverage the efficient availability of a binary form to improve performance. My suggest (speaking for the moment only for myself and not necessarily for my employer) is that we take the easy step first. Let's start by relying on the standard exclusive canonicalization algorithm, applied to the character based infoset. This builds largely on investments that will be made for other reasons anyway. If deployment experience shows that performance is indeed a problem, we always have the opportunity to consider later the possibility of a more elaborate c14n that would draw on the value space, at least for some elements. Some of you may have noticed another thread I've started on the relationship between PASWA and the XQuery data model. I haven't seen any specific requirements for doing signatures over instances of the XQuery model (I.e. signing the input and output of XML databases and queries), but it's not implausible that the need would eventually arise. If so, I suspect that there might be synergy in considering together signatures over the XQuery model and optimizing PASWA signatures: both involve combinations of value space and lexical space forms. For now, speaking for myself, I think it makes sense to start by using the existing c14n recommendations in conjunction with the character form of the Infoset. If individual implementations choose to optimize their computations of such signatures in the face of PASWA so be it, but such optimizations should not be visible externally. The signature should be the same as that which would result from naively converting the value space to characters, and then signing that. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Noah Mendelsohn Voice: 1-617-693-4036 IBM Corporation Fax: 1-617-693-8676 One Rogers Street Cambridge, MA 02142 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Marc Hadley <Marc.Hadley@Sun.COM> Sent by: xml-dist-app-request@w3.org 06/11/03 10:20 AM To: Rich Salz <rsalz@datapower.com> cc: Tony Graham <Tony.Graham@Sun.COM>, "xml-dist-app@w3.org" <xml-dist-app@w3.org>, (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM) Subject: Re: PASWA, canonicalization, and signatures On Tuesday, Jun 10, 2003, at 14:05 US/Eastern, Rich Salz wrote: > >> 1. Who is expected to invent the c14n algorithm to be used when >> signing the "value space"? > > It's not clear that there needs to be one. If it's binary data -- such > as a JPEG or PDF -- then specify specify no transform. If it's XML, > then > (sigh) re-serialize the infoset according to one of the several c14n > methods that are already out there. > In that case, the problem is identifying which chunks to process as XML and which as binary. Unless we prohibit intermediaries from inlining attachments then its possible that something that was signed as binary at the start of the message chain will be converted to base64 text somewhere along the message path. Without some clever C14N (and perhaps some indication in the infoset to trigger clever behaviour) its likely that such binary->infoset transform will break signatues. If we want efficient signature processing then I think we either need a PASWA aware C14N or we need to prohibit intermediaries from messing with the message representation. The other answer is to do neither which means that sigs will need to be computed on the base64 encoded versions of attachments. Marc. >> Note that the W3C XML Signature and XML Encryption activities >> closed in May 2003. [2] > > Irrelevent; since Transform/@Algorithm is a URI, anyone can develop > a C14N spec. UDDI has an XSD-based one, for example. > >> SOAP message as binary content" and that it's only "inefficient >> implementations" that will add attachments as "base64 encoded >> content"? > > Or that that wish, e.g., to work over existing transports. > /r$ > > -- Marc Hadley <marc.hadley@sun.com> Web Technologies and Standards, Sun Microsystems.
Received on Thursday, 12 June 2003 23:25:46 UTC