- From: Jacek Kopecky <jacek@systinet.com>
- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:01:13 +0100 (CET)
- To: Asir S Vedamuthu <asirv@webmethods.com>
- cc: <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Asir, it's mainly the symmetry. The type information is useful on primitive values and on structs, so I don't think we want to forbid it on arrays. 8-) Jacek Kopecky Senior Architect, Systinet (formerly Idoox) http://www.systinet.com/ On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Asir S Vedamuthu wrote: > Jacek, > > Thank you for this description. > > Spec says that you don't have to specify both. That is good. But, what is > the rational for specifying both SOAP-ENC:arrayType and xsi:type for an > element containing an array value? What is your expectation from readers? > > Regards, > > Asir > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacek Kopecky" <jacek@systinet.com> > To: "Asir S Vedamuthu" <asirv@webmethods.com> > Cc: <xml-dist-app@w3.org> > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:43 PM > Subject: Re: summary of soapbuilders discussion about inlining multirefs > > > Asir, > consider the following: > > <person xsi:type="ns:WhoIsWhoInLiteratureRecord"> > <name xsi:type="xsd:string">Joe Q. Writer</name> > <bibliography xsi:type="ns:BibliographyArray" > enc:arrayType="ns:BibliographyItem[1]"> > <item xsi:type="ns:BibliographyItem"> > ... > </item> > </bibliography> > </person> > > And the following excerpt of the schema: > > <complexType name="BibliographyArray" base="soapenc:Array"> > ... > </complexType> > > In this example every item's type is explicitly mentioned, but > since bibliography is an array, it also has the arrayType > attribute which is obligatory. > > And I thought my sentence about hrefs and nils did not allow the > combination, but now I see it can be understood as that it does > allow href and xsi:nil together, so an additional sentence > correcting this would need to be inserted. 8-) > > Take care, > > Jacek Kopecky > > Senior Architect, Systinet (formerly Idoox) > http://www.systinet.com/ > > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Asir S Vedamuthu wrote: > > > > I think arrayType is not equivalent to xsi:type as it does > > > not identify the schema type of the array, so I think > > > xsi:type and arrayType can easily coexist. > > > > Really !! What for ?? > > > > > Note that this rule forbids href and xsi:nil from > > > occurring together as well. > > > > I don't think so. "href or xsi:nil" means 0 1, 1 0, 1 1 are valid. The > third > > combination, both href and xsi:nil, is allowed. > > > > Asir > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jacek Kopecky" <jacek@systinet.com> > > To: "Asir S Vedamuthu" <asirv@webmethods.com> > > Cc: <xml-dist-app@w3.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:11 PM > > Subject: Re: summary of soapbuilders discussion about inlining multirefs > > > > > > Asir, > > I think arrayType is not equivalent to xsi:type as it does not > > identify the schema type of the array, so I think xsi:type and > > arrayType can easily coexist. > > Thanks for pointing out xsi:nil which is very similar to href in > > this issue. > > So my current version of the constraints would be: > > > > "If an href or xsi:nil attribute is present, only these listed > > attributes may be present as well: enc:position, actor, > > mustUnderstand, encodingStyle. On data encoded using SOAP > > Encoding, the encodingStyle attribute, when present, must have > > the value of 'http://www.w3.org/2001/09/soap-encoding'." > > > > Note that this rule forbids href and xsi:nil from occurring > > together as well. > > I've added encodingStyle because if a serialization root, for > > example a header, is a reference, we need to be able to say that > > this element is in fact serialized according to our Encoding > > rules. If the encodingStyle attribute has a value different from > > the above, the href attribute and xsi:nil are to be interpreted > > according to the rules of the other encoding, so it's not our > > business and therefore the restriction above is not a limitation. > > I expect every other global attribute defined by the core should > > be added to the list - if we define any other global attributes. > > Best regards, > > > > Jacek Kopecky > > > > Senior Architect, Systinet (formerly Idoox) > > http://www.systinet.com/ > > > > > > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, Asir S Vedamuthu wrote: > > > > > > 3) For illustration of the problem .. There are two > > > > possible solutions: > > > > > > This is a general problem and is not specific to references. Here is a > > third > > > possible solution that addresses the general problem - specify > > co-occurrence > > > constraints > > > > > > Co-occurrence constraints, > > > > > > (a) href | xsi:nil | xsi:type | SOAP-ENC:arrayType - only one of these > > > attributes must be present > > > (b) id must not be present if href or xsi:nil is present > > > (c) SOAP-ENC:offset must not be present if href, xsi:nil or xsi:type > is > > > present > > > > > > Regards, Asir > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jacek Kopecky" <jacek@idoox.com> > > > To: <xml-dist-app@w3.org> > > > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 8:21 AM > > > Subject: ETF: summary of soapbuilders discussion about inlining > multirefs > > > > > > > > > Hi all. 8-) > > > Here is the summary of the discussion on soapbuilders [1] about > > > inlining multirefs, which could solve the issue #18 (and #121). > > > There was a general agreement that allowing inlining the > > > referenced data would be good. > > > There were various points that people were pointing out: > > > 1) maybe we should also disallow forward references > > > 2) referencing data that can be stripped out from the message > > > 3) attribute clashes on references > > > > > > Now let me detail the points. > > > 1) Some people felt forward references might be bad, other felt > > > my original proposal disallowed forward references. I propose to > > > keep forward references because they allow references from > > > headers to body, which might be necessary for things like > > > XMLDSIG, although any other referencing mechanism (most probably > > > XML IDREF) could be used instead of SOAP Encoding referencing. > > > > > > 2) References from body to headers and references among headers > > > may lead to situations where the referenced data is removed from > > > the message. There are a few possible solutions to this (I'm not > > > saying the list is necessarily complete): > > > a) Rely on application designers to do it right. This is not > > > recommendable. > > > b) disallow references between "serialization trees", the roots > > > of "serialization trees" being each header block and the Body (or > > > for the sake of symmetry each body block, but this is not > > > necessary to solve problem 2). If we go this way we must allow > > > for e.g. the dig-sig header to point to anything using different > > > means from SOAP Encoding hrefs. > > > c) "References in which the referenced data may disappear before > > > all the references (i.e. references between headers or a header > > > and the body), MUST be serialized as "independent" elements in > > > the <soap-env:Header/> element and they must contain an attribute > > > 'actor' with the value '.../none'. All other referenced data > > > SHOULD be serialied in-line." Quite complex but solving the > > > problem. > > > Personally, I prefer b) over c) over a). > > > > > > 3) For illustration of the problem: > > > <a foo="bar" id="1">blah</a> > > > <b foo="baz" href="#1"/> > > > The problem is what is the value of b? There are two possible > > > solutions: > > > a) merge attributes - prefer those from the accessor over those > > > from the referenced element, > > > b) ignore attributes on the accessor except for a limited list > > > of exceptions: href, enc:position. (Might want to add actor and > > > mustUnderstand, but see my reasons against it in [2]). > > > I recommend b), because of reasons in [3]. > > > > > > If any of my recommendations needs more discussion, let me know > > > which and I'll write a separate email so that a formal issue can > > > be formed, for it's better when an the issue list entry links to > > > a message with a single issue. 8-) > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Jacek Kopecky > > > > > > Idoox > > > http://www.idoox.com/ > > > > > > > > > [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/message/5557 > > > [2] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/message/5591 > > > [3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soapbuilders/message/5580 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Wednesday, 31 October 2001 18:01:26 UTC