W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > xml-dist-app@w3.org > May 2000

Re: XML protocol comparison

From: Dave Winer <dave@userland.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:33:28 -0700
Message-ID: <00c901bfc2ab$6efb91c0$ac0886c2@pebbles>
To: "Laird A Popkin" <laird@io.com>
Cc: <xml-dist-app@w3.org>, <eric@w3.org>, <bernhard.dorninger@scch.at>, <ice-ag@egroups.com>
>>If you don't want "this" to happen in the future, I would suggest that you
direct comments about the ICE protocol to the ICE Authoring Group rather
than posting broadsides on your web site and public lists.

Hmmm. Please understand that there really was a screwup when ICE was
forming. The poster on the xml-dist-app list asked why ICE was perceived to
be a Vignette spec. That's why I posted on the xml-dist-app mail list. I
can't tell you where to speak, nor can you tell me (well you can, but I
don't have to do what you want me to). I was offering an olive branch. The
offer still stands.

I suggest letting this stay technical and forget the past and look to the
future. I've posted two challenging messages (two weeks ago I think) and now
you've posted two, as well. I think we're even. I could loop back and tell
you more (and everyone else that's listening in) but I don't want to do
that. Please let's move on and focus on the business of today, not the
business of 1998.

Re the expense of a RSS-capable website, it costs $0 and is available at
www.editthispage.com or www.weblogs.com (both of which are UserLand-operated
services). The RSS feed is automatically generated on the fly from the
contents of the home page of the site. I'll go look for a pointer to the
howto for this built-in capability of all Manila sites.


(Also note that Manila sites automatically support scriptingNews2 format and

There's new management at Vignette now, including an old friend, Richard
Schwartz who I think is their CTO, so there's plenty of room for
forgiveness. I encourage you to take the high road, we've got a lot of
content flowing through RSS, and it is being managed pretty well, it will be
better-managed in the future, and there will be lots more content soon.
Imagine what we could accomplish if we worked together.

Also there was an impromptu BOF meeting about RSS at WWW9 yesterday at the
web publishing developer's day track. I've been trying to figure out how to
move RSS forward, perhaps there is a middle ground, something we can do to
get more content to flow through your network, and vice versa. The high road
approach would be to do that, and I think if you took that approach you
would be serving the people and companies who look to you to keep them in
the loop on all the latest developments. Just my own opinion.

BTW, in case any confusion remains -- we are a publishing technology
company. It's stated pretty clearly on http://www.userland.com/ We are also
active on the content side, we publish over 5000 sites, and we're growing
quickly. Also, I think this was quite clearly stated at the time ICE was
evolving, publicly, many times. We were doing a trial with Vignette, so how
could they not have known that? All their sales people were demoing it. We
shut down our scripting tools business in 1995, and all this stuff was
happening in 1997 and 1998. But a lot of people didn't hear it or believe
it. Hopefully by now it's clear, we still do lots of scripting stuff,
because it's a key technology in the publishing business.

Yours truly in peace and happiness..


PS: It occurs to me that we could bake ICE support into Manila, as we have
for RSS and WAP. Then you'd find 5000 new authors for your network,
overnight. What an incredible business opportunity for your members. (And of
course for my company.)

PPS: I'm still in Amsterdam, well-rested and kind of bored. If anyone is
still here and wants to talk, I'm available for dinner and looking for
interesting converstation.
Received on Saturday, 20 May 2000 09:35:21 UTC

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