- From: Krishna Sankar <ksankar@cisco.com>
- Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:25:03 -0800
- To: <dick@8760.com>, "Satish Thatte" <satisht@microsoft.com>, <john_ibbotson@uk.ibm.com>
- Cc: <xml-dist-app@w3.org>
Dick, I agree with your observation about the relative position of ebXML, XP et al in the layering scheme. On the convergence topic, the fourth dimension (in addition to conceptual, political & technical) is the Timeline. ebXML Phase 1 will be delivered by Feb-May 2001 and XP is slated for 2002. Hence my comment about convergence during ebXML Phase 2. On the other hand, even now we have a lot of cross pollination between the two groups. And as David Clay suggested, the members of the XP group (who hasn't yet looked at the ebXML specs) should review the ebXML specs (especially the TRP), participate and offer suggestions. We can then carry that knowledge to the XP specs as well. In short, at a pragmatic level, we can look for alignment and cross-pollination now (something like the parallel play children do when they are under 4 years or so ;-)) and a possible convergence somewhere in the middle of next year. For anything else, we would need to overcome huge inertia - including promised deliverables by the various groups. cheers -----Original Message----- From: xml-dist-app-request@w3.org [mailto:xml-dist-app-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Dick Brooks Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 4:49 PM To: Satish Thatte; 'Krishna Sankar'; john_ibbotson@uk.ibm.com Cc: xml-dist-app@w3.org; Dick Brooks Subject: RE: SOAP and ebXML All the discussion about convergence between XP and ebXML has helped me understand the different perceptions of XP, ebXML and how the two relate or could possibly converge. Very helpful discussion. There's nothing I can add to what John, David, Brian, Henry, Satish, Ed and others have already stated regarding the possibilities for convergence/alignment between ebXML and XP. The idea to converge SOAP/ebXML goes back quite awhile (Don Box are you out here?). Don and I had some e-mail exchanges on this very topic as far back as February. Satish and I had a similar exchange in August. I believe an overwhelming majority of people agree that convergence is good, however there are differing viewpoints of what convergence means. I believe convergence must occur at three levels between XP and ebXML: - Conceptual - Technical - Political Conceptually I think of the Internet Protocols layering as a good model. For example, the internet protocols IP, TCP and FTP have a very interesting parallel to MIME, XP and ebXML, consider this abbreviated excerpt from the OSI model showing Internet protocols layering and my correlation to ebXML, XP, etc.: FTP---->ebXML TCP---->XP IP---->MIME Ethernet--->HTTP In the above depiction each lower layer provides services (and a foundation) for a higher layer. FTP depends on TCP which depends on IP. This type of arrangement is what I believe people would like to see happen with a converged (XP/ebXML) standard. Speak now or forever hold your peace if I'm wrong. I believe that in order for the groups to move forward on convergence we must agree on a conceptual model which defines the responsibilities and services provided at each layer. This will enable us to define the requirements and technical specifications of each layer. For example, somewhere along the line somebody said IP would not provide reliable delivery, the upper layer, TCP, adds reliability onto IP. Likewise in a converged solution ebXML would build on the services of XP to deliver more robust functionality. After all the conceptual models are completed, requirements gathered and technical specs written comes the easy part, writing the code (no stones please it's intended to be humor). However, in order to begin any discussion/design the business and political issues are addressed FIRST, for example: - Who owns Intellectual property rights (licensing) - Who owns change control (governance); Which standards body "controls" the specs - Can individual "layers" be controlled by different standard bodies - Vendor Certification for compliance (interoperability testing) - I'm sure there are lots more, but these come to mind IMHO, we must address the political/business issues FIRST so that we can proceed with confidence into the Conceptual and Technical efforts. Sorry for the long message, I hope you find it helpful. Dick Brooks Group 8760 110 12th Street North Birmingham, AL 35203 dick@8760.com 205-250-8053 Fax: 205-250-8057 http://www.8760.com/ InsideAgent - Empowering e-commerce solutions
Received on Friday, 8 December 2000 20:24:39 UTC