Re: holdings-schema proposal

I'm still unclear.

bibPart can contain one or more childBibParts.  childBibParts have the same
structure as bibPart.

childEnumChronSummary is an element of bibPart and is only included in
element sets that don't iterate all the children.  I can't find
childEnumChronology - do I have the latest version?

If all the children are iterated, then I understand that there is a need for
enumeration and chronology as an unstructured string.  Therefore the
proposal to allow this in alternativeEnumeration

Janifer Gatenby
Pica ITC Consultancy
+31 71 5246  500 (tel)
+31 71 5223 119 (fax)
janifer.gatenby@pica.nl)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Johan Zeeman" <joe.zeeman@tlcdelivers.com>
To: "Janifer Gatenby" <janifer@wanadoo.fr>; "Ray Denenberg" <rden@loc.gov>;
<www-zig@w3.org>
Cc: "Janifer Gatenby" <janifer.gatenby@pica.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: holdings-schema proposal


> It's already available in ChildEnumChronology.
>
> j.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janifer Gatenby" <janifer@wanadoo.fr>
> To: "Ray Denenberg" <rden@loc.gov>; <www-zig@w3.org>
> Cc: "Janifer Gatenby" <janifer.gatenby@pica.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:40 AM
> Subject: Fw: holdings-schema proposal
>
>
> > Ray said:  "It is claimed that the schema cannot express
> > "volume 5, issue 2" as a flat value. (Why it can't isn't
> > clear to me...."
> >
> > It's not clear to me either.
> >
> > Can we allow unstructured string data in "alternativeEnumeration" and
> > "alternativeChronology" so that it can be used for simple flat display?
> >
> >
> > Janifer Gatenby
> > Pica ITC Consultancy
> > +31 71 5246  500 (tel)
> > +31 71 5223 119 (fax)
> > janifer.gatenby@pica.nl)
> > -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> >
> > From: INTERNET:rden@loc.gov, INTERNET:rden@loc.gov
> > To: ZIG, INTERNET:www-zig@w3.org
> >
> > Date: 14/11/01 16:29
> >
> > RE: holdings-schema proposal
> >
> >
> > There was a proposal presented at the October ZIG meeting to
> > change the holdings schema. See:
> > http://lcweb.loc.gov/z3950/agency/zig/meetings/uk2001/holdings.html
> >
> > There was objection to the proposal, and we ended the
> > meeting with no clear path towards resolution. There was
> > agreement at the meeting to discuss this over the list, but
> > there has been little discussion and no progress towards
> > resolution (as far as I can tell).  I've recently been asked
> > (privately) to see if we can move the discussion along
> > towards consensus.
> >
> > I would like to begin by trying to describe the problem in
> > my own words, partly to get a better understanding myself.
> >
> > BibPart may have "child" bibParts, and this is represented
> > by recursion, that is, Bibpart  includes an element
> > childBibPart whose data type is BibPart.  Bibpart in
> > addition includes elements enumeration and chronology; these
> > two elements would occur within the child bibparts, as well
> > as the top level bib part.
> >
> > Enumeration and chronology occur with each bibPart, and they
> > too are viewed as hierarchical, for example in the
> > enumeration  "volume 5, Issue 2",  "Issue 2" is subordinate
> > to "volume 5".  It is claimed that the schema cannot express
> > "volume 5, issue 2" as a flat value. (Why it can't isn't
> > clear to me. There doesn't seem to be any restriction on the
> > value, but let's assume you can't do it, for argument
> > sake.)  So the suggestion is that enumeration and
> > chronology  each be defined as individually recursive, to
> > allow children, thus to express the subordinate relation.
> > Thus every bibPart (top level and children) would have a
> > recursively defined enumeration and a recursively defined
> > chronology.
> >
> > Those who oppose the proposal suggest that the recursive
> > definition of bibPart is sufficient recursion to recurse
> > these two elements (implicit recursion). In other word,
> > suppose there aren't really any child bib parts, but there
> > are "child" chronologies for the single bib part. You could
> > artificially recurse bibpart to effect the recursion.
> >
> >
> > That's my summary of the proposal and the two positions.  Is
> > this a reasonable interpretation?
> >
> >
> > If so, I have two observations/opinions:
> >
> > 1. I don't think that artificial recursion of bibPart (i.e.
> > implicit recursion) is a good thing. You shouldn't recurse
> > bibpart unless there is a child bibpart. If you do, you have
> > a semantic mess. Suppose we adopt these semantic and there
> > is a child bibpart:  how would you know whether the
> > recurring enumeration/chronology applies to the child or the
> > parent?
> >
> > 2. On the other hand, it seems like overkill to recurse
> > enumeration and/or chronology. Why can't they simply be made
> > repeatable? I.e. allow multiple occurences, where the
> > semantics of multiple occurences is that the N+1th occurence
> > is subordinate to the Nth.
> >
> > Comments please!
> >
> >
> > --Ray
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ray Denenberg
> > Library of Congress
> > rden@loc.gov
> > 202-707-5795
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Received on Thursday, 29 November 2001 05:09:30 UTC