RE: Contradictions regarding transitivity of wsdl:import

Wouldn't this "name change" appear to imply that there are multiple
component models rather than multiple descriptions? That is more
confusing rather than clarifying IMO. 
 
-1
 
--umit
 


  _____  

From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-desc-request@w3.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 8:29 AM
To: Arthur Ryman
Cc: David Booth; www-ws-desc@w3.org; www-ws-desc-request@w3.org
Subject: RE: Contradictions regarding transitivity of wsdl:import


OK, just wanted to make sure I'd understood the proposal. I think that
change is fine. If such a minor change clears up the confusion, I'm all
for it!!!

Gudge


  _____  

From: Arthur Ryman [mailto:ryman@ca.ibm.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:18 AM
To: Martin Gudgin
Cc: David Booth; www-ws-desc@w3.org; www-ws-desc-request@w3.org
Subject: RE: Contradictions regarding transitivity of wsdl:import



Gudge, 

That's what I am proposing. What's your opinion? 

Arthur Ryman,
Rational Desktop Tools Development

phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@fido.ca
intranet: http://labweb.torolab.ibm.com/DRY6/ 



"Martin Gudgin" <mgudgin@microsoft.com> 
Sent by: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org 


04/19/2005 10:35 AM 


To
Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA 

cc
"David Booth" <dbooth@w3.org>, <www-ws-desc@w3.org>,
<www-ws-desc-request@w3.org> 

Subject
RE: Contradictions regarding transitivity of wsdl:import	

		




So, to summarize; the plan is to rename, at the component model level,
the 'Description' component to be called the 'Component Model'
component? 
  
Gudge 


  _____  

From: Arthur Ryman [mailto:ryman@ca.ibm.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:07 AM
To: Martin Gudgin
Cc: David Booth; www-ws-desc@w3.org; www-ws-desc-request@w3.org
Subject: RE: Contradictions regarding transitivity of wsdl:import


Martin, 

After your note, David phoned me and we talked for a long time. The
conversation pointed out to me that what I considered to be the obvious
interpretation of the component model was not so obvious. 

My interpretation was that the Description component contained all the
components from all the documents. i.e., we are only talking about a
single component model instance. Any reference from one component must
land on another component within the same Description component. 

However, David thought that the Description component mapped more
closely to the <description> element and that it contained only those
components that were "visible" to the components defined in the
document. 

I think this confusion could be reduced by adopting Option 1, namely get
rid of the Description component and replace it with a new object named
"Component Model". That would make is clear that there is no close
correspondence with a document. 

The Component Model object would contain the same properties as the
current Description component. These properties contain the "root"
components: interfaces, bindings, services, and types. All other
components are nested within the root components. 

Option 1 also has the benefit that we finally define the Component Model
in the same amount of detail as we define the components. The spec
refers to the component model a lot but never actually defines in much
detail. 

Arthur Ryman,
Rational Desktop Tools Development

phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@fido.ca
intranet: http://labweb.torolab.ibm.com/DRY6/ 


"Martin Gudgin" <mgudgin@microsoft.com> 
Sent by: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org 


04/18/2005 09:56 PM 




To
"David Booth" <dbooth@w3.org>, Arthur Ryman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA 

cc
<www-ws-desc@w3.org> 

Subject
RE: Contradictions regarding transitivity of wsdl:import	


		






I didn't think this was where we ended up after my 'illumination'
e-mail... What happened? 

Gudge

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Booth [mailto:dbooth@w3.org] 
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:53 PM
> To: Arthur Ryman
> Cc: Martin Gudgin; www-ws-desc@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Contradictions regarding transitivity of wsdl:import
> 
> On Mon, 2005-04-18 at 12:17, Arthur Ryman wrote:
> > David,
> > 
> > I don't think this works in general. The reason is that documents
> > refer to each other so there really isn't a component model for each
> > document..
> 
> I now understand that that is the current design of the component
> model.  I was suggesting that instead there should be a 
> component model
> for each WSDL 2.0 document (i.e., each wsdl:description element
> information item), along the lines of option 2 that you propose below.
> 
> > 
> > You could have a document that didn't refer to any other 
> document, and
> > that would have a component model. That is a "leaf" node.
> > 
> > Document can actually have circular references to 
> eachother. The spec
> > permits this. The component model therefore must include all the
> > components in order to satisfy the intercomponent references.
> > 
> > My reading of the spec is that all components belong to a single
> > instance of the component model. The instance is defined by a root
> > document and the set of documents it references.
> > 
> > There are two possible ways we could improve the clarity of 
> the spec:
> > 
> > Option 1. Rename the Description Component to the Component Model
> > 
> > This actually eliminates the Description component altogether and
> > replaces it with an object called the Component Model. The 
> spec talks
> > a lot about the component model, but never actually defines 
> it. We can
> > make it clear that the component model contains all the components
> > from all the documents processed.
> > 
> > Option 2. Define the Component Model to be a set of Description
> > Components, and restrict each Description component to only contain
> > the components defined in it
> 
> Yes, I think this approach would be a considerably clearer and more
> straightforward way to go.  However, I would nitpick about the word
> "set".  "Directed graph" would be more precise:  A given WSDL 2.0
> document would have a single Description component, which may refer to
> other Description components (if the original WSDL 2.0 
> document imports
> other documents, for example), thus representing a directed graph.
> 
> > 
> > This makes the mapping between Description components and documents
> > clearer. 
> 
> Yes, and we need people to understand our spec.  We have already
> received complaints about how hard it is to understand.   
> 
> > It introduces the technical subtlety of what to do about duplicated
> > components. We currently allow duplicate components to come from
> > different documents as long as the components are equivalent. To
> > resolve component references, we need to pick a particular component
> > among the set of equivant components (or formally introduce 
> the notion
> > of equivalence class and make component references resolve 
> to those).
> 
> I think we have that subtlety already, but you're right it 
> will have to
> be resolved differently.  There are several ways it could be 
> handled.  I
> doubt equivalence classes would be needed.  One way is for each
> Description component to have an {imported descriptions} 
> property.  Then
> if a new document is imported, ignore it if its corresponding
> Description component is already in that set.
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Booth <dbooth@w3.org>
> 
>