- From: Jonathan Marsh <jmarsh@microsoft.com>
- Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:34:48 -0700
- To: <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <DF1BAFBC28DF694A823C9A8400E71EA203BBD5F0@RED-MSG-30.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Here are the corrected minutes. > -----Original Message----- > From: David Booth [mailto:dbooth@w3.org] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:32 AM > To: paul.downey@bt.com; ygoland@bea.com; Jonathan Marsh > Cc: www-ws-desc@w3.org > Subject: RE: FW: Minutes, 13 May 2004 WS Desc telcon > > Somehow when Glen grabbed the IRC log the lines were chopped at 80 > characters. > > Here are the 13 May 2004 minutes again that Glen took, with the exception > of action items and roll call to be supplied by JMarsh. > > > At 03:12 AM 5/21/2004 +0100, paul.downey@bt.com wrote: > >me too.. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org on behalf of Yaron Y. Goland > > Sent: Thu 20/05/2004 18:51 > > To: Jonathan Marsh > > Cc: www-ws-desc@w3.org > > Subject: Re: FW: Minutes, 13 May 2004 WS Desc telcon > > > > > > > > > > Is it just me or does every sentence look chopped off in these > > minutes? > > > > Jonathan Marsh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Glen Daniels [mailto:gdaniels@sonicsoftware.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:50 AM > > > To: Jonathan Marsh > > > Subject: Minutes > > > > > > > > > Jonathan: > > > > > > Here are the generated minutes for the telcon last week. It > > looks a > > > little weird to me in a couple of places, but that just seems > > to be on > > > my machine - looks OK on David Booth's. > > > > > > I cut out the AI review since the script kind of mangled that > > based on > > > the way I did it (cutting and pasting with line breaks > confused the > > > script), and David said you usually put that stuff in anyway. > > > > > > I didn't know how to merge the attendance record in, so I just > > put it in > > > a <pre> tag. If this isn't right, please let me know how you > > like it > > > done and I'll fix it. > > > > > > --Glen > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > <http://www.w3.org/> > > > > > > > > > WSDL Telcon > > > 13 May 2004 > > > > > > See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2004/05/13-ws-desc-irc> > > > > > > > > > Attendees > > > > > > Present: > > > Erik Ackerman Lexmark > > > David Booth W3C > > > Allen Brookes Rogue Wave Software > > > Roberto Chinnici Sun Microsystems > > > Ugo Corda SeeBeyond > > > Glen Daniels Sonic Software > > > Paul Downey British Telecommunications > > > Youenn Fablet Canon > > > Hugo Haas W3C > > > Hao He Thomson > > > Tom Jordahl Macromedia > > > Amelia Lewis TIBCO > > > Kevin Canyang Liu SAP > > > Jonathan Marsh Chair (Microsoft) > > > Josephine Micallef Telcordia/SAIC > > > Jeff Mischkinsky Oracle > > > Dale Moberg Cyclone Commerce > > > Jean-Jacques Moreau Canon > > > David Orchard BEA Systems > > > Bijan Parsia University of Maryland MIND Lab > > > Arthur Ryman IBM > > > Igor Sedukhin Computer Associates > > > William Vambenepe Hewlett-Packard > > > Sanjiva Weerawarana IBM > > > Umit Yalcinalp Oracle > > > Prasad Yendluri webMethods, Inc. > > > > > > Regrets: > > > None > > > > > > > > > Contents > > > > > > * Topics <#agenda> > > > 1. 2. Approval of minutes <#item01> > > > 2. 3. Review of Action item [.1]. <#item02> > > > 3. 4. Administrivia <#item03> > > > 4. 5. Task Force Status. <#item04> > > > 5. 6. New Issues. Issues list [.1]. <#item05> > > > 6. 7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1] > > <#item06> > > > 7. 8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]: <#item07> > > > * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary> > > > > > > > > > 2. Approval of minutes > > > > > > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - May 6th [.1] > > > > > > APPROVED > > > > > > > > > 3. Review of Action item [.1]. > > > > > > ? 2004-01-28: Philippe and JMarsh will look at the ip > > > > > > scribe: test suite. > > > > > > <scribe> PENDING > > > > > > <scribe> DONE [.2] 2004-02-12: DaveO to produce a refined > > proposal for > > > > > > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: HTTP binding addressing the concerns of > > > ...that object to leaving replyTo info out > > > > > > ? 2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going. > > > > > > <scribe> PENDING > > > > > > <scribe> DONE [.3] 2004-04-29: Arthur to write up concerns > > about XML 1 > > > > > > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: implications on WSDL 2.0 for potential > > > ...forwarding to XML WG. > > > > > > ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor > > > > > > scribe: draft on media types ready for our May > > > ...meeting in NYC. > > > > > > <scribe> PENDING > > > > > > ? 2004-04-29: Part 1 editors to adopt Jacek's "purpos > > > > > > scribe: binding" text, without "interchangeable > > > ...endpoints, and using "confidentiality" > > > ...similar) instead of TLS. > > > > > > <scribe> PENDING > > > > > > ? 2004-05-06: JJM to incorporate this proposal (SOAP > > > > > > scribe: Binding) after removing parts that are > > > ...to media type and intermediary > > > > > > <scribe> PENDING, partially done > > > > > > <scribe> DONE 2004-05-06: Marsh to draft David O or Hugo to > write > > > > > > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: proposal for describing the requirement > > > ...capabilities bucket of http features > > > > > > ? 2004-05-06: Part 3 editors to incorporate Sanjiva's > > > > > > scribe: proposal. > > > > > > <scribe> DONE > > > > > > ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor > > > > > > scribe: draft on media types ready for our May > > > ...meeting in NYC. > > > > > > <scribe> DONE (Umit arrived and updated us) > > > > > > > > > 4. Administrivia > > > > > > Jonathan: Will try to get draft agenda out EOD Friday > > > > > > Proposed testing meeting Thursday afternoon in NYC for those > > > > > > Umit: What's up with MTOM/XOP? > > > > > > Jonathan: We should have some discussion about that at the F2 > > > ...Goal was to finish all issues - not too likely at t > > > > > > Kevin: Phone access? > > > > > > Sanjiva: Should be phone, but not sure of quality... > > > ...c. Review of I18N WS Task Force documents [.6] > > > > > > [.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/ > > > > > > > > > 5. Task Force Status. > > > > > > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: a. Media type description > > > ...- Draft of first WD for WG approval by May FTF. > > > > > > Jonathan: Would be good to get consensus on publishing the dr > > > > > > > > > 6. New Issues. Issues list [.1]. > > > > > > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Track operation safety (TAG) [.2] > > > > > > Opening new issue > > > > > > scribe: - Normative dependence on XML Schema 1.0 precludes XML > 1.1 > > > ...- Can a WSDL 2.0 XML 1.1 document contain (or reference), a > > > ...- Is it valid for a XML 1.1 document to import or include a > > > > > > Add new issues > > > > > > > > > 7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1] > > > > > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0093. > > > > > > Hugo: (summarizes proposal) > > > > > > Jonathan: Big question is do we want extensibility at the me > > > > > > David: Wanted to see concrete proposal before going ahead. > > > > > > Jonathan: Issues with having a QName as opposed to an HTTP-sp > > > > > > Arthur: Why not just a string? > > > > > > Jonathan: Name collisions, IBM-foo vs. Microsoft-foo > > > > > > Arthur: Arent these HTTP verbs? GET, POST, etc? > > > > > > Hugo: This came from discussion of using HTTP method as metho > > > ...This means you need to specify a bunch of things, which > > > > > > <pauld> > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0042.h > > > > > > Sanjiva: Clarify what this proposal is about? > > > > > > Jonathan: Status quo == a string for method, with various oth > > > > > > Sanjiva: For common usage, the HTTP method might be variable, > > > ...Capture extensibility in > > > ...HTTP methods by using a String > > > > > > Arthur: Combining how you're serializing with the method seem > > > > > > DavidO: Maybe we should change "method" to "method-and-relate > > > > > > Paul: On the wire, both IBM:BUY and MS:BUY would be the same. > > > > > > DavidO: Tooling would know that particular serializations, et > > > > > > Umit: There's a distinction between method and the other stuf > > > > > > JeffM: Does this lead to everyone defining QNames for every c > > > > > > DavidO: Basic HTTP should only have a few. Trying to provide > > > > > > JeffM: How does this optimize for the simple case, do we spec > > > > > > DavidO: For basic HTTP, yes > > > > > > JeffM: Why not F&P, by the way? > > > > > > Hugo: Table 3.1 is modelled on the XForms submission table, a > > > > > > <umit> +1 to Arthur > > > > > > Arthur: Why not just have attributes for basic stuff like me > > > > > > <sanjiva> I'm confused as to why we don't introduce > > http:serialization > > > > > > <Arthur> +1 to Sanjiva > > > > > > DavidO: F&P vs. WSDL extensibility is a separate issue > > > > > > <Arthur> +1 > > > > > > <Arthur> +q > > > > > > DavidO: We have use cases for this stuff, but they aren't gre > > > > > > <umit> +1 to Marsh :-) > > > > > > <sanjiva> +1 too! > > > > > > Jonathan: Why isn't it better to enable extensibility for eac > > > > > > DavidO: Worried about a more-complex-looking proposal... > > > > > > Arthur: QName makes spec harder to read (as opposed to "GET", > > > ...Doesn't scale if you need new QName for every combo > > > > > > DavidO: Do we have a "full potato" proposal? > > > > > > Hugo: Had one, but it looked overly complicated... > > > > > > scribe note - "full potato" == allow setting all properties i > > > > > > DavidO: Can the group see it? > > > > > > Jonathan: Would no extensibility for method be OK? > > > > > > Arthur: We clearly have a requirement from somewhere (WEBDAV) > > > > > > Jonathan: Isn't strictly a requirement yet... > > > > > > <Zakim> sanjiva, you wanted to make a proposal > > > > > > Arthur: Why exclude WEBDAV folks, though > > > > > > <pauld> and Atom uses PUT and DELETE ... > > > > > > Sanjiva: Change method name to string, values are same as HTT > > > ...Then introduce properties as needed > > > > > > Jonathan: Yes, you mean the "full potato" > > > ...Big question is do we want a full-featured HTTP bin > > > > > > <sanjiva> In my mind, doing a full featured HTTP binding begs > > for prof > > > > > > DavidO: Want to make this real, and will peel however many po > > > > > > Arthur: Simple case shouldn't be complicated. > > > > > > Jonathan: If you say "PUT" that should default other properti > > > > > > <sanjiva> I'm against defaulting serialization format - just > > make it a > > > > > > Hugo: Full potato with clever defaulting is what we should ex > > > > > > Jonathan: Sounds like... > > > > > > > > > 8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]: > > > > > > UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Summary: > > > ...+ HTTP Version > > > ...+ Content coding > > > ...+ Transfer Codings (Chunked encoding) > > > ...+ Caching (Vary, etc.) > > > ...+ Content Negotiation ? > > > > > > [.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/ > > > > > > [.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/ > > > > > > [.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/ > > > > > > DavidO: Certain common cases will cause Content coding not to > > > > > > (darn return key) > > > > > > DavidO: ...used > > > ...Two buckets - required and extensions. Transfer codi > > > > > > Jonathan: Clear that some of these things are needed, and the > > > ...Need to figure out which of these things goes in, s > > > ...Do we need these in the core spec? (back to questio > > > > > > DavidO: Getting most of the HTTP functionality seems pretty s > > > > > > Jonathan: Looks like adding 10-15 attributes, which in most c > > > > > > Glen: If people want to do these things, we should supply the > > > > > > Jonathan: How many folks are psyched about implementing this? > > > > > > Arthur: Setting all this stuff up doesn't have a lot of benef > > > ...It's really a small optimization (saving round trips) > > > > > > <dbooth> GlenD: If you're a cell phone, an additional round > > trip is a bi > > > > > > Paul: +1 to Glen, mobile interactions are expensive, so optim > > > ...Also, optimization in general (GZIP available, etc) is > > > > > > DavidO: BEA has been deploying GET and POST with tweakable se > > > ...You need to know what uname/pw to use, for instance, > > > > > > <pauld> how to describe a service is protected by BA is > > something i'm > > > > > > Sanjiva: May be properties which affect the programming model > > > ...Rest as hints/optimizations are OK > > > > > > Paul: Can we reuse this stuff with the SOAP HTTP binding? > > > > > > Glen: SOAP HTTP binding is different than WSDL HTTP binding > > > > > > Paul: Lots of useful work here.. why not reuse? > > > > > > Glen: Would want to vet anything like that (adding properties > > > > > > Jonathan: Anyone +1 Arthur's concern about not going there wi > > > > > > TomJ: +1 > > > > > > Jonathan: Most folks sound like they're up for some level of > > > > > > DavidO: Two things - 1) "full potato" proposal, 2) Transfer-c > > > > > > Jonathan: Would be good to have proposed syntax for each of t > > > > > > <scribe> *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for > > expressing Trans > > > > > > greek chorus: <silence> > > > > > > Jonathan: If no proposals, we won't put 'em in... > > > > > > <dbooth> [Meeting Adjourned] > > > > > > > > > Summary of Action Items > > > > > > *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for > > expressing Trans > > > > > > Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl 1.79 > > > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribe.perl> > > (CVS log > > > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/scribe.perl>) > > > $Date: 2004/05/11 13:37:20 $ > > > > > > > > > -- > David Booth > W3C Fellow / Hewlett-Packard > Telephone: +1.617.253.1273
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Received on Wednesday, 26 May 2004 17:34:17 UTC