- From: Olivier Fehr <Olivier.Fehr@ofehr.com>
- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:23:29 +0200
- To: "Frank McCabe" <frankmccabe@mac.com>, <www-ws-arch@w3.org>
Not quite sure I understand why WSA can't deliver. The plumbing is, as you point out, the necessary prerequisite and it enables data to be exchanged between separate - and previously incompatible - systems. And it provides standard ways for services to find and communicate with each other. Of course, it doesn't solve all the problems. Now, it is a fact of life that people speak different 'languages' and even worse, a certain word may have different things to different people even when the language they use is the same. That doesn't necessarily, mean that they cannot communicate with each other and have a meaningful dialogue. The key here is in translating the 'data' exchanged so that it makes sense in the other's frame of reference. That is a real challenge, I agree. The company I work for is being transformed from a decentralized organization to more centralized one using common standards and best practices. Sure, some items have completely different names, part numbers and sometimes even different meanings in different parts of the company. But here we are talking about the data itself, its transformation and cleansing and we are also talking differences in processes (an order can have different perquisites and components in one part than it has in another). Coming up with these transformation rules is the harder part, sure, but not doing is not an option. Maybe after having the plumbing in place people will start to wonder why they are doing things differently then the other guy, so maybe we are lucky and some 'harmonization' will take place automatically. Cheers Oliver -----Original Message----- From: www-ws-arch-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-arch-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Frank McCabe Sent: mardi, 23. septembre 2003 03:40 To: www-ws-arch@w3.org I have been a little uneasy for a while about certain aspects of the direction that the WSA is taking. This note is an attempt to express this concisely and hopefully to suggest a route forward. The current WSA is, somewhat consciously, founded on the principle that the application writer has most, if not all, the 'rights' in designing a system. In this case, by application writer I mean the collective group of people who are designing a particular Web services application. Of course, there are constraints, which mostly arise from the mechanics of getting Web service agents talking to each other. My concern does not lie in the plumbing. Imagine a scenario a few years down the road where two corporations have developed and deployed their Enterprise and/or supply chain using the latest of Web service technologies. (By latest, I mean technologies based on specs we can see coming: SOAP 1.2, WSDL 1.2, OWL 1.0, WS-CDL 1.0, BPEL 1.2 etc. etc.) One of these buys the other, and now these two systems must work together -- or some shareholders are going to be upset, and the CIO will lose sleep. My question is, in what way, other than with the necessary but tedious plumbing, will our specs have helped that scenario. My fear is that we will not have helped enough; and by extension, Web services will not deliver on the promise. The issue is that some of the hardest problems with this kind of integration don't come from the plumbing but come from silly but devastating dissonances such as incompatible dates, different names for slightly different parts, and different names for slightly different functions. For example, A inc. may require that a PO be "requested", and B inc. may require that it be "authorized". While A inc and B inc were separate, this wasn't an issue, but as soon as A buys B, then this becomes a problem. Related, and perhaps more realistic, are cases where 'vertical' supply chains have to be merged. A used to deal with A*, but now A gets to deal with A* and B*, and B similarly with A* and B*. There though, we are not simply adjusting two systems but 2N systems, belonging to 2N companies. The tower of Babel referred to above is the huge number of application-specific systems that can't leverage each other because of trivial but lethal incompatibilities. There has to be a better way. Before we look at solutions, it is helpful to see that there is a problem. Is this analysis off the mark, and if so, why? Frank
Received on Tuesday, 23 September 2003 14:18:48 UTC