RE: Reliable Messaging - Summary of Threads

We would do this using an EAI product, actually.  Like your company
sells, although not yours I'm afraid (although yours is highly regarded
by those of us that have looked at it).  That is, the SOAP node would
communicate with our backoffice via proprietary messaging.
 
Frankly I think that most businesses do things this way.  I do not
personally anticipate significant penetration of web services, at least
in our environment, for this sort of function.  The proprietary
techniques, if one has an environment where one can use them because one
has control over, or at least access to, the whole picture, simply offer
too many advantages.  By comparison web services are pretty "basic".  In
my view, however, "basic" is what you need in the loosely coupled, B2B
world.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ugo Corda [mailto:UCorda@SeeBeyond.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 12:26 PM
To: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler); www-ws-arch@w3.org
Subject: RE: Reliable Messaging - Summary of Threads


I was referring to the case where the SOAP-based communication actually
goes deeper inside the enterprise (probably over a MOM transport). So
when enterprise A targets a SOAP node at enterprise B, this final node
is not the Web server that connects B to the Internet, but is actually a
SOAP node internal to B, for which the Web server is just a SOAP
intermediary. One reason for doing this, for example, is that the target
node inside B might not always be available, so I want to interpose an
asynchronous connection (e.g. a queuing mechanism) between the receiving
Web server and the target node.
 
Of course, the segment between the Web server and the target node inside
B might not be implemented as a SOAP connection, so the issue I am
raising does not exist in that case (and A would not even see that
internal node as a target SOAP node). But I am making the assumptions
that more and more businesses will start using Web services technologies
inside the enterprise, so that the SOAP path will extend (seamlessly, we
hope) from outside to inside.
 
Ugo

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)
[mailto:RogerCutler@ChevronTexaco.com]
	Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 10:07 AM
	To: Ugo Corda; www-ws-arch@w3.org
	Subject: RE: Reliable Messaging - Summary of Threads
	
	
	No, I think that I am referring to B2B, but maybe I'm not
understanding what you are saying.  If you are tallking about the
firewall and proxies, I sort of consider that transparent.  Or something
that somebody else works out.  Somebody like people from SeeBeyond, I
guess.  That is, there is communication of some sort between the
backoffice stuff and a server that has access to the internet on my
side, and similarly on the other side, but the primary messaging is just
one hop between the B2B app on my server and the B2B app on the other
side.
	 
	Does this just display my ignorance?
	 
	-----Original Message-----
	From: Ugo Corda [mailto:UCorda@SeeBeyond.com] 
	Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 12:03 PM
	To: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler); www-ws-arch@w3.org
	Subject: RE: Reliable Messaging - Summary of Threads
	
	
	Roger,
	 
	>There are MANY, MANY important business applications that
involve simple A<->B communication.
	 
	Are you referring to business applications within an enterprise?
Because it seems to me that as soon as you do B2B you are likely to deal
with intermediary nodes at the edge between Internet and intranet, and
to deal with different transports.
	 
	Ugo