Fwd: Minutes of 11/07 WebOnt Telecon

>From: "Thompson, Lynne R" <Lynne.Thompson@unisys.com>

>Minutes of the November 7, 2002 Telecon
>November 7, 2002
>http://www.w3.org/2002/11/07-webont-irc (11/07/02 WebOntIRC Log)
>Chair:	Guus Schreiber
>Scribe:	Lynne Thompson
>1.  Administration (15 minutes)
>1.1  Roll Call
>Jeremy Carroll, Hewlett Packard Company
>Dan Connolly, W3C
>Jos De Roo, Agfa-Gevaert N. V.
>Mike Dean (Invited Expert)
>Larry Eshelman, Philips Electronics N.V
>Jérôme Euzenat, INRIA
>Pat Hayes (Invited Expert)
>Jeff Heflin (Invited Expert)
>James Hendler, University of Maryland
>Masahiro Hori, IBM Corporation
>Ian Horrocks, Network Inference
>Massimo Marchiori, W3C
>Libby Miller, University of Bristol
>Leo Obrst, MITRE
>Peter Patel-Schneider, Lucent Technologies
>Marwan Sabbouh, MITRE
>Guus Schreiber
>Michael Smith, Electronic Data System (EDS)
>John Stanton, Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA)
>Lynne R. Thompson, Unisys Corporation
>Evan Wallace, National Institute of Standards and Technology
>Christopher Welty, IBM Corporation
>Jonathan Borden (Invited Expert)
>Tim Finin, University of Maryland
>Ziv Hellman, Unicorn Solutions Inc
>Deborah McGuinness, Stanford University
>Lynn Andrea Stein (Invited Expert)
>Raphael Volz, Forschungszentrum Informatik (FZI)
>Frank van Harmelen, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
>1.2   Approval of 10/31 Minutes
>Minutes of the 10/31 telecon accepted with change noted in the 11/7 agenda.
>1.3   Agenda Amendments
>1.4   Telecon Schedule
>Next telecon:  November 14, 2002 per regular schedule
>Scribe:  Jeremy Caroll
>1.5  Upcoming F2F Meetings
>Massimo Marchiori has set up registration page. Registration is now open and
>link is:
>Guus Schreiber received a reply on remote access arrangements for next F2F
>meeting from Deborah McGuinness. 
>Per Ian, the list of possible hotels for the F2F meeting in Manchester is
>posted on the website.  The choice of hotel depends on cost and proximity to
>the computer science department and to the city.  Some of the hotels are
>Ibis and Novatel which are fairly new and relatively inexpensive; Princess
>Hotel is an old refurnished hotel and quite expensive.  Guus suggested to
>Ian to make one or two recommendations.
>ACTION: Forward remote access request to Ian Horrocks next week (Guus)
>2.  First WD Semantics Document (30-40 min)
>Latest version:
>Peter's e-mail on the stance the semantics document take on open issues:
>There were a couple of reviews of the semantics document already.  Reviews
>were very encouraging.  Per Peter, we need to consider whether the document
>is complete, if not, what are missing.  He noted that there is one
>substantive complain - the document does not have proof that OWL DL+
>localization is equal to OWL Full.  He suggested to put in a proof sketch
>saying that OWL DL + localization has fewer entailments than OWL Full.  He
>recommended adding a pointer in the document indicating that "there
>something missing here". 
>Dan argues that the decision to publish is most important.  A piece missing
>in the document is not a reason not to publish...The question is not "Is the
>document is complete?", but rather "Is it valuable to the audience?", "Is it
>going to confuse them?", "Is it going to cause more harm than good?".
>Peter and Dan agreed that they see no harm in publishing the document.
>There is no reason to delay publication of document.  Jim Hendler suggested
>that the document be approved for release (with editorial changes).  The
>rest of the discussion should be on recommendations to Peter on stances on
>Per Guus, there is a moratorium to publish which begins Wednesday, 11/13.
>It would be the last possible date that we can send the working draft to be
>published before the end of November.  He proposed that given the editorial
>comments discussed in today's telecon, we publish the document as the first
>semantics working draft before the beginning of the moratorium.  No
>objections were received.
>3.   ISSUES (20-30 min)
>Issue list:  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html
>Issue 4.6 equivalentTo (Closed)
>There is a proposal to close issue 4.6 from Peter Patel-Schneider, that is,
>keep the 3 statements in the language - sameClassAs, samePropertyAs, and
>sameIndividualAs.as well as whether equivalentTO is limited to same "type".
>Some objections to this proposal are noted in:
>Jim made the formal amendment that we have an owl:sameAs that is a synonym
>for sameIndividualAs and in the document, we explain its typically used
>where they are different, or not known to be the same class.
>Guus proposed to accept proposal from Peter with amendment that we add
>sameAs that is a synonym for sameIndividualAs with exactly the same
>semantics.  Jeremy, Leo, Ian, Chris W, Jos De Roo, and Peter abstained.
>Issue 4.6 was resolved by consensus and in now closed. We will have owl:
>sameClassAs, samePropertyAs, SameIndividualAs and SameAs which is a synonym
>for sameIndividualAs.  The ref/guide documents will include a note that
>owl:sameAs is typically used when it is not known whether the types are the
>same. [from irnc log http://www.w3.org/2002/11/07-webont-irc]
>Guus proposed that we rename differentIndiviudalFrom construct to
>differentFrom with exactly the same meaning.  Abstain: Peter, Leo, Ian, Mike
>S., Mike Dean, and Kevin.  Sufficient people are able to carry this
>Issue 5.5 - List Syntax or Semantics (Open)
>Jeremy's message plus follow-up:
>Jim suggested that the action to the chairs (Guus and Jim) be withdrawn.
>The issue, if any, is not clear.  Dan opposed.  This action was reassigned
>to Dan Connally.
>ACTION:   5.5 list syntax or semantics in RDF CORE, Semantic Web
>Coordination (Dan Connally)
>Issue 5.6 - imports (Open)
>Jeff Heflin noted that the latest proposal to close Issue 5.6 can be found
>There was a lengthy discussion on the issue, with no consensus from the
>working group. Guus took a straw poll.  There were two options on the table:
>(1) Jeff's proposal with amendments, and  (2) Postpone the resolution of the
>issue.  3 (Dan, Jim, and Pat) cannot live with Jeff's proposal. 6 (Jeff,
>Evan, Ian, Leo, Mike S., Peter) cannot live postponing this issue.
>Pat volunteered to do the word crafting without modifying the real content
>of the proposal.  Wordsmith is not enough to change Jim and Dan's position
>on the issue.  In addition, Jim is getting more convinced that this is a
>band aid solution.  He would like to see "something that really isolates
>this issue...something that makes it much clearer that this is a limited
>mechanism". It might probably get him to change his mind.
>It was clear that this issue will remain open for discussion.  Jim suggested
>that Peter take a stance with respect to this issue, write it up and make it
>very clear that it is still an open issue. Per Peter, there is a statement
>which reads as "This document provides an import directives and the abstract
>syntax in term of imports closure but the issue is still open for discussion
>with the working group".
>Jim prefers a formal voting on the issue to give people more time to make up
>their minds. He suggested that the final wording be publish on the web,
>thereafter, vote online (e-mail or web-based).
>ACTION:  Reword Jeff's proposal (Pat Hayes)
>Issue 5.9 - malformed D+O restrictions (Closed)
>There is a proposal from Peter Patel-Schneider to close this issue.
>Peter briefly summarized the content of his proposal.  There are two options
>if you have too many triples on one OWL restrictions: (1) In DAML+OIL model
>theory, you form up all legal restrictions possible, and say that they are
>co-existensional, and (2) in Pat's proposal, the effect of such collections
>is to force the properties to be the same, and then to force
>Dan would like to amend the proposal with some clear instructions to the
>guide that says "Don't do that".  Dan was actioned to write up a few
>sentences for the guide.
>Jim raised a point of clarification.  "The two options seem to be ok to most
>of us. But we should resolve something and close the issue."  Peter proposed
>the DAML+OIL way.
>Guus proposed to resolve Issue 5.9 - malformed DAML+OIL restrictions with
>the 1st option in the proposal by Peter Patel-Schneider.  Resolution carried
>with Jim Hendler abstaining.
>ACTION:  Write-up a few sentences for the guide (Dan Connally)
>Issue 5.19 - Classes as Instances (Closed, Open for discussion)
>The action to move the issue forward and write up 1-d and 2-d views to make
>clearer to users was completed (Guus and Frank).
>Dan requested a discussion on this issue.  WG discussion was not completed
>due to lack of time.
>The following agenda items were not discussed in today's telecon due to time
>Issue 4.3 - Structured Datatypes
>There is a proposal for Issue 4.3 from Jonathan Borden.  No discussion as
>Jonathan is not present at 11/7 telecon.
>Issue 5.8 - datatypes
>Issue 5.13 - internet media type for OWL
>Issue 5.14 - Ontology versioning
>Issue 5.17 - XML presentation syntax
>Issue 5.18 - Unique names assumption
>ACTION:  Dan Connolly to write up the 'all different' proposal for Issue
>Decision was made to release the documents before Wednesday, 11/13.  All
>editors of the documents are ready to release their documents.  Peter has
>some changes to make to the semantics document.  As soon as changes are
>made, he will forward document to Dan. 
>5.   AOB

Professor James Hendler				  hendler@cs.umd.edu
Director, Semantic Web and Agent Technologies	  301-405-2696
Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab.	  301-405-6707 (Fax)
Univ of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742	  240-731-3822 (Cell)

Received on Tuesday, 12 November 2002 22:59:04 UTC