- From: pat hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
- Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:06:15 -0600
- To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfps@research.bell-labs.com>
- Cc: www-webont-wg@w3.org
>From: pat hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu> >Subject: decisions about RDF semantics >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:01:48 -0600 > >> The RDF core WG is rapidly converging to a final version of RDFS, and >> this is a heads-up of some of the things that are relevant to the >> webont semantics. >> >> SubClassOf and subPropertyOf now have IFF semantics, but range and >> domain don't. The community seems to be about evenly divided on this >> one, so if anyone has a strong case to make, then please make it >> quickly. > >I don't care. I believe that it is permissable for OWL to turn the one-way >rdfs:domain and rdfs:range into IFF versions in OWL interpretations. > >> The RDF list vocabulary has essentially no semantics, so OWL will >> have to provide one. (The only assumptions are that >> rdf:nil rdf:type rdf:List >> and the obvious domain and range conditions on rdf:first and rdf:rest.) > >I was expecting this all along, so the OWL model theory places its own >conditions on the lists it cares about. > >> There is very little datatyping provided. Literals can have datatypes >> attached, and when they do and when their string is a valid lexical >> form, they denote the appropriate value. Otherwise they are treated >> like opaque names, so OWL could impose its own interpretation on them >> in the absence of datatyping info. > >This is not true. Typed literals of the form "lll"^^ddd, where ddd is a >known datatype but lll is not in the value space for ddd are given >specific denotations, thus preventing them from being anything else. For >example, in an XML Schema-interpretation, >"033333333333333333333"^^xsd:float is different from >"0033333333333333333333"^^xsd:float. There is a distinction between RDFS-interpretations and D-interpretations which take account of a set of datatypes (engines for which are presumed to have access to the datatype API). What I said applied to RDFS interpretations, for which there is no notion of 'known datatype'. For D-interpretations, what you say is correct: but I am writing this part now, so if you have any strong feelings about what badly-formed typed literals should denote, let me know. I only require that they not denote a normal literal value, so that the inference aaa ppp "sillynumber"^^xsd:number . ---> aaa ppp _:xxx . _:xxx rdf:type _:yyy . _:yyy rdf:type rdfs:Datatype . is blocked. > > Bare literals always denote >> themselves (they can be a string or a pair of strings) and this is >> not influenced by datatyping. Datatype names used as class names >> refer to the class of elements of the value space of the datatype. >> There is no range datatyping and no provision for linking a bnode to >> a literal with a datatyping property, but such usage would not >> violate RDF, if OWL wanted to impose it. RDF *never* assumes that two >> items in different value spaces are equal, even when they are. > >I believe that this contradicts both the current version of the RDF MT Well, I'm writing the current version, so I hope it doesn't. But in any case I don't see how not making an assumption can possibly contradict anything. And RDF has no way to express equality, so this isnt much of an assertion. >and >clear wording in the XML Schema datatyping document. I think you will find that that clear wording does not mean what you take it to mean. I was certainly surprised to find out what it means. XSD says that any two things in different basic datatype value spaces are unequal. As far as I can tell, this uses a sense of 'equal' which is unknown outside the XSD literature, but whatever xsd-'equal' means, it does not mean 'identical'. Rather than try to unpick this confusion, I think it is best if RDF stays quietly on the sidelines and lets the XSD community try to make sense of their own pigsty. In any case, I didnt say that they WERE unequal, I just said that RDF takes no stance on the matter. > >For example, suppose that I have two dataypes ex:D1 and ex:D2. The L2V >mapping of ex:D1 maps ddd^eee, where ddd is a signed numeral whose integer >value has absolute value less than 2^24 and ee is a signed numeral whose >integer value is between -149 and 104 inclusive, into the integer value of >ddd times 2 raised to the power of the integer value of ddd. The L2V >mapping of ex:D2 maps ddd^eee, where ddd is a signed numeral whose integer >value has absolute value less than 2^53 and ee is a signed numeral whose >integer value is between -1075 and 970 inclusive, into the integer value of >ddd times 2 raised to the power of the integer value of ddd. > >Then if ex:D1 and ex:D2 identify datatypes, the RDF model theory then makes >"5^5"^^ex:D1 denote five times two to the fifth, i.e., one hundred and >sixty, and "5^5"^^ex:D2 denote five times two to the fifth, also one >hundred and sixty. > >What are ex:D1 and ex:D2? Well, they are just slight modifications of cut >down versions of xsd:float and xsd:double. The value spaces of xsd:float >and xsd:double are definitely *not* disjoint. According to Henry Thompson they definitely are, and this will be clarified and made explicit in the next round of XML Schema updates. > >All this actually has consequences for OWL. I agree. Take the matter up with Henry, I have warned him already that there is a train wreck coming. He will say that the values in the spaces are identical but that the same values (he uses the plural in such a case to refer to one thing) in two different spaces are un*equal*. Can you make sense of that? Apparently to him is it as clear as glass. > It appears to me that in OWL >plus XML Schema datatypes > > <ex:foo> rdf:type owl:functionalProperty . > <ex:John> <ex:foo> "333333333333"^^xsd:float . > <ex:John> <ex:foo> "333333333333"^^xsd:double . > >would be a contradiction, but that > > <ex:foo> rdf:type owl:functionalProperty . > <ex:John> <ex:foo> "5e-2"^^xsd:float . > <ex:John> <ex:foo> "10e-3"^^xsd:double . > >would *not* be a contradiction. > >Also, it appears to me that the denotations of datatypes that have >different L2V mappings must be distinct individuals. Therefore > > xsd:float owl:sameIndividualAs xsd:decimal . > >would be a contradiction. Right, it is, according to XML Schema. Get used to it, XML Schema is NOT based on extensional set-theoretic thinking: value spaces are not sets. They are more like categories. The 'same' thing in two different spaces is different from itself. > >> If a >> datatype scheme wishes to make claims like this, it has to do so >> explicitly. > >This I don't understand at all. How can a datatyping scheme make explicit >claims that two items in different value spaces are equal? Why not? XSD makes rulings on the matter. Pat -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32501 (850)291 0667 cell phayes@ai.uwf.edu http://www.coginst.uwf.edu/~phayes s.pam@ai.uwf.edu for spam
Received on Thursday, 7 November 2002 12:05:57 UTC