W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-validator@w3.org > September 2005

reset-button + "validate by direct input" (was: Validator and/or correct markup for empty table row)

From: Frank Ellermann <nobody@xyzzy.claranet.de>
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:31:36 +0200
To: www-validator@w3.org
Message-ID: <433AE188.80C@xyzzy.claranet.de>

Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

>> Minor validator nit, please add a Reset-button to the
>> "validate by direct input" form, something like
>> <input type="reset" class="hideme" /> for old browsers.

> Please don't. Destruction buttons ("reset buttons")
> considered harmful,
> see e.g. http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000416.html

That article says "almost never helps users, but often hurts
them."  Every user learns that lesson, once, and then "reset"
is a feature and no bug.

> on a typical browser, you can wipe out the contents of the
> text input field by pressing the Esc key there. No questions
> asked.

Not with my browser.  "Select all" + "cut" also doesn't work,
I can select the text area content with the mouse, and then
"shift Del" it, but then I also lose the old clipboard content.

> This is bad software design

Each piece of software or hardware has a "soft reset", that's
standard design everywhere, because the "remove batteries and
wait five minutes" approach turned out to be too clumsy.

> there is no need to create duplicate functionality by adding
> a button.

But it does not duplicate functionality for me - that's why I
proposed class="hideme" (= don't show it for modern browsers).

They could also add display: none to the existing input.reset
in base.css as far as I'm concerned (assuming that this does
what I think), as a general solution for both "worlds" (text
or old vs. modern browser).

My use of "validate by direct input" directly reflected the
section "Exception: Use Reset for Repeated Form-Filling" in

Besides, that's not the only exception, for a complex form
with numerous choices and defaults "reset" is a nice feature -
at least with my old browser "reload" won't do what I want.

> there _is_ a destruction button in the "Extended Direct Input
> Interface" at http://validator.w3.org/fragment-upload.html

Oh, good.  That's another possible solution, remove the simple
"direct input" form from the main page, offer a link to the
"extended direct input", that's good enough.  And maybe add a
class="hideme" there for modern browers.

The simple "direct input" is huge and ugly on the main page,
only a few geeks need this.  Those geeks would also want the
extended features, always.  Without a simple form on the main
page the "recent updates" are immediately visible, and that's
IMHO more important than this huge form.

                         Bye, Frank
Received on Wednesday, 28 September 2005 18:39:32 UTC

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