- From: Shel Kaphan <sjk@amazon.com>
- Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:13:27 -0800
- To: hedlund@best.com (M. Hedlund)
- Cc: www-talk@w3.org
M. Hedlund writes: > At 10:03 AM 11/9/95, Shel Kaphan wrote (quoting me): ... > >Are you saying that there is a universal repository > >of DTD's out there somewhere? If you don't have the description, you > >have to get it *somewhere*, don't you? ... > If you send _one_ URL that describes browser PopuBrowser's capabilities, [ ... bad things happen ... ] > One the other hand, if you send a document identifier, [ ... good things happen ... ] I see what you mean now. This is pretty close to what I suggested the other day: there should be replicated databases, indexed by HTTP_USER_AGENT string, that return *something* describing the browser. I agree that the DTD could and probably should be among those things, but see no reason why it must be limited to that. Returning a text document that describes, in simple terms, something like the contents of <A HREF=http://objarts.com/cgi-bin/webmac.exe/browsercaps/index.html> David Ornstein's Browser Caps database</A> for the browser in question also seems potentially useful. Nobody is required to use it -- only people who really want to. It's not pretty, it's not nice, it's just something you need if you want to get this level of control. It's a way to represent not just features, but bugs too. DTD's don't do that. Whether you wish to exercise this level of control is between you and your library functions. I am not at all sure I believe style sheets have much of a part in this right now. The reason is that the installed base of browsers knows nothing about them. This is not to knock style sheets at all -- it is just my view that a solution to this problem has to help in the present world, not just "the glorious future". > >And no, I don't think any of this kind of information should be sent > >on every request. I already proposed one method, using the existing > >Redirect machinery, for servers to "request" this information from clients. > > Yeah, that would be a good idea if the info is coming from the browser. > But does it need to? > No -- it appears it shouldn't. I disavow any previous comments to the contrary. ... > 1. If you want to send _one_ page that just about anybody can read, > send HTML/2.0. (This is no negotiation.) > 2. If you want to take advantage of HTML/3.0, send it only to those > browsers that include "text/html;version=3.0" in their Accept header. > (This is Internet Media Type negotiation.) > 3. If you want to take advantage of experimental tags and > particular versions of draft standards, get the browser's DTD and see if it > can render those tags. (This is DTD negotiation.) > 4. If you want to influence the presentation of those tags, issue a > site-wide style sheet. (This is one part of cascading style sheets (CSS); > some other parts include the user's own preferences, which aren't for you > to worry about.) > 5. If you want still-finer negotiation, write a page for every > browser about which you care. (This is user-agent negotiation.) > 6. If you want absolute control, send PDF. (This is no negotiation.) > Obviously, this structure is not in place today. #1, #5, & #6 are not > protocol issues; nor are they desirable. The rest need to be implemented > in order to work. If they are implemented, I think this structure would be > a complete solution. > Seems entirely reasonable, except for what you said about 5. A case in point is the handling of multiple submit buttons. It is entirely conceivable for a DTD to specify that a name field occurs in this element, however the browser may fail to send that name. It's a bug, but it needs to be represented somewhere, hopefully not by a case statement for that browser in my code. > M. Hedlund <hedlund@best.com> > > [1]<URL:http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/Style/>. > Shel Kaphan sjk@amazon.com
Received on Friday, 10 November 1995 17:16:46 UTC