Re: Digital Textbooks and Locally-stored Student and Educational Data


I suggest you talk to these people rather than the TAG:

They are more likely the right forum for your ambitious and sweeping
architectural vision for a Web 4.0-based e-learning system that the
TAG, who deal mostly with Web 2.0 but occasionally drift into Web 3.0.
There are no e-learning W3C Working Groups at this moment since other
standards bodies such as IMS and IEEE (See SCORM) cover this

Adam, I am also surprised you did not bring up the relationship of AI
to e-learning and Web architecture (although I believe this is
technically out of scope for the W3C). For example, I can imagine a
terrifying future where at some point all requests to the TAG are
delivered not by actual human beings with real problems but by natural
language generation engines whose database is populated by random noun
selection from an equally randomly-selected academic International
Semantic Web Conference article, which would create a sort of "Sokal
Affair" of the TAG if a new issue is actually opened to address the
concerns of said request.


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 1:51 AM, Adam Sobieski <> wrote:
> Dominic,
> Thank you; let’s get to productive technological and scientific topics.  I’m
> composing an email to clarify some of the exciting topics and opportunities:
> Web Browser / Digital Textbook Browser as Desktop Application: Interprocess
> Communication, The Facilitation of Education Technology Features and
> Education Workflow Scenarios across Platforms describing possible needs for
> features, ideation of features, and explanation of why possible features,
> for LMS, e-learning software, courseware and digital textbooks might require
> enhanced interprocess communication, viewing browsers as desktop
> applications.
> There are topics of implementing education workflow scenarios for students
> with interoperating desktop applications as an alternative to a cloud
> storage and web services model.  Both can be phrased as architectural.
> Goals include delivering features and data privacy simultaneously, the
> architectural topics also providing opportunities insofar as describing
> multivendor applications which interoperate with browsers to provide
> enhanced education workflows.  The goals of the conversation, then, pertain
> to facilitating new features from the interoperation of multivendor desktop
> applications, to provide teams with those options, to provide vendors with
> opportunities; interoperating desktop applications can be phrased as an
> alternative to some cloud-based and web-services-based approaches.
> The topics pertain to each browser; the matter of complexity is the
> implementation of entirely new features for users, for students, while
> providing students with data privacy, the technical and architectural matter
> is enhancing browsers’ interprocess communication across platforms, with
> educational workflows, which we can each readily envision, involving
> multiple tabs and applications on students mobile computers.
> In the thread Web Browser / Digital Textbook Browser as Desktop Application:
> Interprocess Communication, The Facilitation of Education Technology
> Features and Education Workflow Scenarios across Platforms, I will describe
> some of the new features, and survey interprocess communication options,
> towards ideation; numerous platforms have new, albeit platform-specific
> desktop application interoperability features, you may also be able to
> envision cool new features and ergonomics for educational software on mobile
> computers.
> Kind regards,
> Adam Sobieski
> From: Domenic Denicola
> Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎06‎ ‎PM
> To: Adam Sobieski, Daniel Appelquist
> Cc:
> Hi Adam,
> I will try one more time.
> If you do not communicate with us in a straightforward manner ("like human
> beings," as Marcos says), we will simply not be able to understand what you
> are saying. Multiple paragraphs to answer a simple question; a list of links
> that honestly looks like you are trying to pull some SEO spam trick; telling
> us our own names---these are not things that we can helpfully respond to.
> Let us repeat Marcos's questions. If you would like anyone to respond to
> you, please respond to each of them in turn, in one sentence each:
>> Like, it seems you are doing all this fancy stuff with XML, RDF, etc. It
>> all sounds like it's going well for you. Where are you getting stuck? Are
>> you getting stuck?
>> What do you need exactly?
>> Where is stuff breaking for you?
>> What browser are you using?
> Once we have a dialog established, with your short one-sentence answers, we
> can then dig into the relevant topics in more detail (although hopefully
> still with more brevity than your previous responses and link-collections).
> I hope you can understand that if you cannot have a conversation with us in
> a normal fashion, you will get no responses, just as happened to your
> [webcomponents] and [Editing] emails. Claiming that you do not like how we
> talk is not productive, no matter how many social sciences you cite as your
> reasons. Remember that this is our forum and you seem to be approaching us
> for ... something, although it is not clear what. If you want that something
> from us, you need to give us something to go on. This mailing list is not
> the place for "letters," mind you: it is the place for conversations. The
> one-sentence requirement above is in place because this conversation has
> gotten off to such a rocky start, and we need to get it going again by
> making sure it stays a conversation instead of a screed.
> I hope you can take this feedback in the spirit it is given.
> ________________________________
> From: Adam Sobieski <>
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 18:17
> To: Daniel Appelquist
> Cc: Domenic Denicola;
> Subject: Re: Digital Textbooks and Locally-stored Student and Educational
> Data
> Daniel Appelquist,
> Thank you.  My response indicating browser interprocess communication across
> platforms as necessary for multivendor education technology workflows
> ( did, in my
> opinion, address the gist of Marcus’ concerns, “what is missing from the Web
> platform” in its last four paragraphs; I opted not to respond to his
> specific letter, however, due to topics of tone and the imperative
> metadiscourse.
> Recapitulating, I did, at least in part, answer Marcos’ request for
> information in the subsequent letter
> ( but did not
> respond to his specific letter for reasons pertaining to rhetoric, speech
> act theory, discourse theory, communication science and other social
> sciences.  I hope that I have clarified, in that regard.  Furthermore, the
> accusations of the topics being irrelevant to the Web, to Web architecture,
> that my letters on the topics of Digital Textbooks and Locally-stored
> Student and Educational Data have been flooding or spamming this mailing
> list are offensive to me.
> I will review the structure of the Technical Architecture Group; the website
> ( indicates: Tim Berners-Lee, Daniel Appelquist,
> Domenic Denicola, David Herman, Yehuda Katz, Sergey Konstantinov, Yves
> Lafon, Peter Linss, Jeni Tennison and one open seat.
> A specific architectural topic, which I hope is interesting to the group, is
> multiplatform interprocess communication, facilitating multivendor education
> technology solutions; there are features for education technology,
> applications interoperating with digital textbooks in education workflow
> scenarios, such that the browser as desktop application and interprocess
> communication across platforms is an architectural and logistic concern.  I
> would like to get towards the technical topics and to discover more
> technical topics which enhance education technology and digital textbooks.
> I agree that discussing the venue to discuss the topics is productive to
> addressing numerous concerns and enhancing technology stacks in numerous
> ways.  There could be multiple appropriate mailing list venues to get
> traction on these important topics, including at the W3C; it could be that
> one or more specific W3C groups are appropriate to discuss the topics and
> discussion towards specific architectural concerns.
> Kind regards,
> Adam Sobieski
> From: Daniel Appelquist
> Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎6‎:‎04‎ ‎PM
> To: Adam Sobieski
> Cc: Domenic Denicola,
> Dear Adam,
> After reviewing your posts and Marcos's reply I am forced to agree with
> Domenic: you really need to address Marcos's questions if you wish to engage
> in any kind of discussion here. If you're interested in addressing specific
> issues of web architecture that relate to your problem statements then
> please elucidate us as to what those might be. I do not think anyone here is
> being disrespectful.
> More constructively: the TAG may not be the right community to air these
> issues. Are you aware of the web publishing interest group?
> This is an activity that may be
> more appropriate to the discussion you are trying to start. And if there are
> specific architectural concerns that emerge from those discussions we will
> be happy to take them up at that time.
> Daniel Appelquist
> TAG Co-Chair
> On 8 Aug 2014, at 22:21, Adam Sobieski <> wrote:
> Domenic,
> I was dissatisfied with the perceived level of respect from Marcos, his
> interpersonal tone, his informality, his interpersonal rhetorical stances,
> his attempts to utilize directive metadiscourse with me, that he attempted
> to do so in front of others, and thus it seemed that the best etiquette was
> not to address him.
> I am also disappointed with both a lack of respect and of professionalism
> from you.  It seems to be that both he and you would rather disrupt the
> productive topics broached, that both he and you are unwilling or unable to
> discuss the scientific, technological and highly relevant topics
> substantively.
> It is my preference to resolve the dispute that both he and you apologize to
> me in front of the W3C Technical Architecture Group at this time.
> Kind regards,
> Adam
> From: Domenic Denicola
> Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎August‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎5‎:‎14‎ ‎PM
> To: Adam Sobieski,
> Hi Adam,
> We're going to need you to address Marcos's earlier points before we can
> respond to any of your messages.
> If you're not interested in a dialog, please stop spamming the list.
> ________________________________
> From: Adam Sobieski <>
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 16:47
> To:
> Subject: Re: Digital Textbooks and Locally-stored Student and Educational
> Data
> W3C Technical Architecture Group,
> A related topic is educational data and cloud storage, educational data such
> as notes.  A browser topic, from a larger number of topics integrating
> browser software into platform-independent educational workflow scenarios,
> is interoperability with notes software.  Interoperability between digital
> textbooks and notes software pertains to numerous topics including scholarly
> and scientific communication, referencing and citing content from documents
> in browsers, including to specific chapters, pages, paragraphs, sentences or
> selected hypertext.
> A concern about notes software is cloud storage:
> It is important to discuss these topics at the W3C, that we can discuss
> these topics comfortably at the W3C, with digital textbook standards
> discussions ongoing at the W3C.  Web scientists and technologists are
> cognizant of unfolding discussions elsewhere, points of view, various sides
> of discussion topics and cases and laws with regard to student data privacy.
> Scientists at the W3C include proponents of student data privacy; protecting
> student data privacy is a part of the discussions pertinent to unfolding
> digital textbook standards.
> Though Web-based applications are popular at the W3C, browser
> interoperability with multivendor desktop applications facilitates
> educational workflow scenarios with local storage and computation.
> Complexities to browser interoperability, interprocess communication, with
> desktop applications include that each browser software is designed for and
> compiled for numerous platforms and that each platform has different
> component object and interprocess architectures.  Interprocess communication
> is platform-specific, e.g. iOS, Android and Windows.
> The desired features for digital textbooks, advancing digital textbook
> features, pertain to interprocess communication with multivendor desktop
> applications which combine into educational workflow scenarios.  The
> features are visible to digital textbook teams as specified markup,
> scripting, API.  The features are implemented by browser teams and the
> topical interprocess communication features vary per platform.  There are
> logistical complexities and coordinative challenges to getting the digital
> textbooks technologies towards having the large set of features to where
> digital textbooks are fluidly interoperable with multivendor applications,
> in educational workflows.  With the web browsers as the digital textbook
> rendering software, numerous such features can enhanced web browsing user
> experiences as well.
> Summarily, interprocess communication between browsers and multivendor
> desktop applications on each major platform, applications providing local
> storage and computation, is topical to providing students with data privacy
> while facilitating and enhancing the features of educational workflow
> scenarios.
> Discussion topics include how to include digital textbooks, standard formats
> rendered in browsers, and their existing and emerging new features in
> multivendor, multi-application, educational workflows across platforms.
> Kind regards,
> Adam Sobieski
> P.S.: For colleagues interested in the topics, here are some hyperlinks
> (from, education news and analysis, policy and
> political blogs, education blogs, educational resources and organizations:
> Education News and Analysis
> American Educator
> ASCD SmartBrief
> Chronicle of Higher Education
> Education Next
> Education Week
> eSchoolNews
> Hechinger Report
> Huffington Post Education
> Inside Higher Ed
> Jay Mathews’ Class Struggle
> New York Times Education
> Phi Delta Kappan
> School Wise Pres
> Teacher Magazine
> Washington Post Education
> Policy and Political Blogs
> Andrew
> Bloggingheads TV
> Daniel Drezner
> Huffington Post
> Mojo
> Political Animal (Washington Monthly)
> Politico
> Politics Daily
> Real Clear Politics
> Red, Brown, and Blue
> Scotusblog
> Spencer Ackerman
> Taking Note
> The American Scene
> The Corner
> The Democratic Strategist
> The Plank (TNR)
> Think Tank Town
> Volokh Conspiracy
> Vox
> Vox Pop
> Washington Whispers
> WSJ’s Blog Federation
> Education Blogs
> 4.0 Schools
> Assorted Stuff
> At the Chalk Face
> Barnett Berry
> Bridging Differences
> Chalkbeat Colorado
> Charter Blog (NAPCS)
> Chartering Quality (NACSA)
> CITE Blog
> Core Knowledge Blog
> Curriki
> Dangerously Irrelevant
> Dave Shearon
> Deborah Kenny
> Dems for Education Reform
> Diane Ravitch
> Dropout Nation
> Early Ed Watch
> Ed is Watching
> Ed Source
> EDifier
> Edspresso
> Education Law Review
> Education Next Blog
> EduFlack
> Eduoptimists
> Edwize (UFT)
> Essential Blog
> Eye On Early Education
> Flypaper (Fordham)
> Get   Schooled (AJC)
> Getting Smart
> GreatSchools Blog
> Hechinger Institute Blogs
> Higher Ed Watch
> I Thought A Think
> Inside Schools Blog
> Intercepts
> IvyGate
> Jay Greene
> John Merrow
> Just Us Seeking Justice
> Kitchen Table Math
> Larry Cuban
> LFA – Public School Insights
> Marc Tucker's Top Performers
> Meeting the Turnaround Challenge Blog
> Michael And Susan Dell Foundation Blog
> Mike Rose’s Blog
> Moving At The Speed Of Creativity
> Mr. B-G’s English Blog
> National Journal's Education Insiders
> NCTQ's PDQ Blog
> New Schools Venture Fund
> NSBA’s BoardBuzz
> NY Chalkbeat
> NYC Educator
> Paul Baker
> Philadelphia Public School Notebook
> Politics K-12 (EdWeek)
> Principal's Policy Blog (NASSP)
> Quick and the Ed
> RedefinED
> Rick Hess Straight Up
> Sara Mead's Policy Notebook
> School Zone   (MJS)
> Science After School
> Shanker Blog
> Sherman Dorn
> Small   Talk
> Special Education Law Blog
> Teacher Beat Blog
> Teacher Voices
> Teachers At Risk
> The College Puzzle
> The Concord Review
> The Doyle Report
> The Gradebook (Tampa Bay Times)
> The Hall Monitor
> The Life That Chose Me
> The PrincipalsPage
> The SF K Files
> This Week In Education
> Whitney Tilson
> Why Homeschool
> Educational Resources and Organizations
> AALE Charter School   Accreditation
> Achieve
> Alliance for Excellent Education
> American Association of School Administrators
> American Educational Research Association
> American Federation of Teachers
> American Institutes For Research
> Annie E. Casey Foundation
> Asia Society
> Aspen Institute
> Building Excellent Schools
> Center for American Progress
> Center for Education Reform
> Center for School Change
> Center on Education Policy
> Center on Reinventing Public Education
> Charter Board Partners
> Citizen Schools
> Coalition of Essential Schools
> Community College Research Center
> Community Training and Assistance Center
> Core Knowledge Foundation
> Council of Chief State School Officers
> Council of Great City Schools
> Data Quality Campaign
> Democratic Leadership Council
> EdSource
> Education Commission of the States
> Education Evolving
> Education Sector
> EducationBug
> eSchool News
> George Lucas Educational Foundation
> Haberman Foundation
> Harvard’s Program on Education Policy and Governance
> Hechinger Institute on Education and the Media
> IssueLab
> Joyce Foundation
> Knowledge Alliance
> Local School Directory
> Michael and Susan Dell Foundation
> Mid-continent Research for Education and Learning
> Montessori
> National Academies Center for Education
> National Alliance for Public Charter Schools
> National Association of Charter School Authorizers
> National Association of Secondary School Principals
> National Center for Educational Achievement
> National Center for Postsecondary Research
> National Center on Education and the Economy
> National Council on Teacher Quality
> National Education Association
> National Education Writers Association
> National Governors Association
> National Institute for Excellence in Teaching
> National School Boards Association
> New Leaders for New Schools
> New Schools Venture Fund
> PIE-Network
> Pre-K Now
> Progressive Policy Institute
> Public Agenda
> Public Impact
> Public Private Action
> Reading Reform Foundation
> Scholastic Administrator
> Standards Work
> Strategic Management of Human Capital
> Teach for America
> The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
> The Broad Foundation
> The Brookings Institution
> The Education Trust
> The Mind Trust
> The New Teacher Project
> The Savvy Source for Parents
> The Urban Institute
> Thomas B. Fordham Foundation
> Uncommon Schools
> United States Department of Education
> WestEd
> Woodrow Wilson National Fellowship Foundation

Received on Saturday, 9 August 2014 01:14:27 UTC