- From: Yves Lafon <ylafon@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 09:41:04 -0400 (EDT)
- To: www-tag@w3.org
Available at
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/08/02-minutes.html
and below in text format.
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
This is version has not been approved as a true record of the
TAG's meeting and there is some risk that individual TAG
members have been misquoted. This transcript should typically
not be quoted, except as necessary to arrange for correction
and approval.
Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
02 Aug 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jul/0063.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-tagmem-irc
Attendees
Present
masinter, Jonathan_Rees, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, plinss
Regrets
Robin
Chair
Larry
Scribe
Yves
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Approval of minutes
2. [6]Administrative items
3. [7](deepLinking-25): Can publication of hyperlinks
constitute copyright infringment?
4. [8]Action items
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<jar> [10]http://www.w3.org/2002/07/08-tag-summary#quorum
[10] http://www.w3.org/2002/07/08-tag-summary#quorum
approval of minutes
did people review the minutes?
=> approval of minutes postponed
administrative items
next call is aug 9
(deepLinking-25): Can publication of hyperlinks constitute copyright
infringment?
<Larry:> Let's go through the items Ashok raised
Ashok: should we refer to the governanc doc? (from the P&L
one), response was "not yet"
Larry: got mixed feedback on the governance document
<Larry:> got feedback to use Tussles in Cyberspace
ashok: I started to read that doc, not enough yet
<masinter>
[11]http://groups.csail.mit.edu/ana/Publications/PubPDFs/Tussle
%20in%20Cyberspace%20Defining%20Tomorrows%20Internet%202005's%2
0Internet.pdf
[11] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/ana/Publications/PubPDFs/Tussle%20in%20Cyberspace%20Defining%20Tomorrows%20Internet%202005's%20Internet.pdf
<masinter> feedback is that the "Tussle" paper is a better
foundatin to start with
<masinter> and that governanceFramework should _start_ with
Tussle, and use it as the basis for a (shorter) framework
<masinter> the feedback is that we should start with that, and
then talk specifically about the 'tussle' in the web
<Ashok> I will review the Tussle paper
<jar> "accommodating this tussle is crucial to the evolution of
the network’s technical architecture"
ashok: proxies that, without user interaction, are doing
something with data. Some will act if there are policies
allowing to process the data. Those statements are not
contradictory, but are they sending different messages?
jar: one is judgment, the other one is decisions made by a
machine
<jar> judgment is the word I use to mean something a human has
to do. computers don't judge
ashok: there are no machine-readable policy languages for
intermediaries
<masinter> jar: CCRel is an example
<jar> e.g. [12]http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC_REL
[12] http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC_REL
<masinter> [13]http://www.w3.org/Submission/ccREL/
[13] http://www.w3.org/Submission/ccREL/
<masinter> should CCRel be a citation?
<jar> also
[14]http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/#sec-proxy-use-of-no-tra
nsform
[14] http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/#sec-proxy-use-of-no-transform
<masinter> I don't mind details
<masinter> jar, could you give an example of something you're
uncomfortable with and how you might rewrite it?
jar: the idea that the information is owned is not true
<masinter> jar: Could you ground this in a specific example
jar: the internet archive changed its policy to care about
robots.txt It was a disservice to the public, and they were not
required by law
not sure the report should go into arguments like that
<masinter> jar, where does the report get into something that
it shouldn't?
note that the internet archive is protected by library
exemption
<jar> Proxies should comply with instructions from origin
servers that describe whether pages may be copied and
transformed
<masinter> you don't think it is a best practice that proxies
comply with instrucctions?
<masinter> under what circumstance is it not a 'best practice'?
<masinter> give an example, just one example, when it isn't a
'best practice'
<masinter> so if it is a caching proxy?
<masinter> proxies that are advertised as to not transform
content should not transform content?
<masinter> Jonathan, do you think the BPs are hopelessly
unfixable?
jar: not sure about the targeted audience of this document, so
I'm confused by this
<masinter> I'm trying to distinguish between "I don't know who
this is useful for?" and "I think the advice it gives is wrong
and not fixable"
<masinter> I don't think "interesting" is a consensus opinion
<masinter> does anyone else have an opinion,
<masinter> Peter, Yves?
Yves: it would be good to stay strictly in the description of
how linking work
so getting rid of most of the BPs
Peter: I thought we made the decision to do so, it seems that
we are back again to mixing those
<masinter> cut away more of the policy
<scribe> ACTION: Larry and Ashok to remove the best practises
parts of the P&L document [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]
[15] http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-tagmem-minutes.html#action01
<trackbot> Created ACTION-731 - And Ashok to remove the best
practises parts of the P&L document [on Larry Masinter - due
2012-08-09].
<masinter> we could add a reference to 'Tussle' in intro, too
Ashok: it there a way for people to forbid linking?
jar: yes, don't provide a URL
<masinter> temporary URLs, or content in scripting
<masinter> should we talk about those things in this document?
<masinter> ways in which people circumvent ability to deep
link?
<masinter> feedback from wendy and thomas were to reference
Tussle
jar: the general question is "do you want a legal tool when
there are technical tools to do what you want to achieve"
(forbiding linking)
Action items
<masinter> action-679?
<trackbot> ACTION-679 -- Yves Lafon to check how Appcache
should fit into Ashok's storage document -- due 2012-05-01 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/679
[16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/679
<masinter> Yves and Robin convinced Ashok Appcache is not part
of local storage
<masinter> close action-679
<trackbot> ACTION-679 check how Appcache should fit into
Ashok's storage document closed
<masinter> action-404?
<trackbot> ACTION-404 -- Yves Lafon to track HTML WG ISSUE-27
rel-ownership -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/404
[17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/404
<masinter> should postpone
<masinter> action-404 due in 2 months?
<trackbot> ACTION-404 Track HTML WG ISSUE-27 rel-ownership due
date now in 2 months?
<masinter> action-659?
<trackbot> ACTION-659 -- Yves Lafon to track IETF efforts on
HTTP 2.0 & SPDY -- due 2012-07-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/659
[18] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/659
<masinter> action-659 due 2012-08-05
<trackbot> ACTION-659 Track IETF efforts on HTTP 2.0 & SPDY due
date now 2012-08-05
<masinter> action-617?
<trackbot> ACTION-617 -- Yves Lafon to work with Noah to take
[19]http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off
the Rec track -- due 2012-06-01 -- OPEN
[19] http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/617
[20] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/617
<masinter> peter closed some and changed dates on others
<masinter> action-712?
<trackbot> ACTION-712 -- Peter Linss to help us decide whether
to have F2F session on i18n and comparison Due 2012-05-29 --
due 2012-05-31 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/712
[21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/712
<masinter> action-606?
<trackbot> ACTION-606 -- Peter Linss to invite I18N and other
concerned groups to provide written technical input as prep to
discussion with the TAG regarding unicode normalization -- due
2012-06-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/606
[22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/606
<masinter> i've heard from Addison recently
<masinter> action-727?
<trackbot> ACTION-727 -- Ashok Malhotra to with help from JAR
and Larry to work on a plan for taking a slightly stronger
version of the Copyright and Linking draft forward -- due
2012-07-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/727
[23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/727
<masinter> this is overtaken, we should close it
<masinter> close action-727
<trackbot> ACTION-727 With help from JAR and Larry to work on a
plan for taking a slightly stronger version of the Copyright
and Linking draft forward closed
<masinter> action-717?
<trackbot> ACTION-717 -- Ashok Malhotra to propose outline for
possible TAG document (finding or rec) on architectural issues
relating to storage sync, linked data, etc. Due 2012-07-15 --
due 2012-06-20 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[24]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/717
[24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/717
<masinter> action-717 due 2012-09-01
<trackbot> ACTION-717 Propose outline for possible TAG document
(finding or rec) on architectural issues relating to storage
sync, linked data, etc. Due 2012-07-15 due date now 2012-09-01
<masinter> action-719?
<trackbot> ACTION-719 -- Larry Masinter to reply to Hannes
pointing to the minutes, summarizing the discussion, and asking
him if he has any more specific questions. -- due 2012-06-20 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[25]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/719
[25] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/719
<masinter> i talked to hannes Tuesday night; he said he would
get back to us
<masinter> action-722?
<trackbot> ACTION-722 -- Jonathan Rees to review 'publishing
and linking' due -- due 2012-08-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[26]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/722
[26] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/722
<masinter> action-722 due in 1 week
<trackbot> ACTION-722 Review 'publishing and linking' due due
date now in 1 week
<masinter> review it after there's a new version of it
<masinter> i think JAR says he'll review P&L after Ashok &
Larry update it this week
<masinter> Ashok, you and I are meeting monday to update P&L,
and JAR should review after it
<masinter> Ashok, i'll make a pass on cutting out the BPs if
you like
<jar> Instead of this action I propose looking at the Tussle
paper first
<masinter> close action-722
<trackbot> ACTION-722 Review 'publishing and linking' due
closed
<masinter> action-726?
<trackbot> ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of
questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers to,
as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to
chairs etc. -- due 2012-08-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
[27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
<masinter> action-728?
<trackbot> ACTION-728 -- Noah Mendelsohn to find editor for
copyright and linking after group reviews Ashok's proposals on
stronger messages -- due 2012-07-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[28]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/728
[28] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/728
<masinter> close action-728
<trackbot> ACTION-728 find editor for copyright and linking
after group reviews Ashok's proposals on stronger messages
closed
<masinter> action-707?
<trackbot> ACTION-707 -- Henry Thompson to keep an eye on
[29]http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-appsawg-media-type-suffix
-regs-00.txt and relation to RFC 3023bis -- due 2012-06-05 --
OPEN
[29] http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-appsawg-media-type-suffix-regs-00.txt
<trackbot>
[30]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/707
[30] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/707
<masinter> there's news on this, this week, on the mailing list
<masinter> action-635?
<trackbot> ACTION-635 -- Henry Thompson to update product page
for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and
dates -- due 2012-06-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[31]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/635
[31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/635
<masinter> the product page is ok but the link from the TAG
products overview is wrong
AOB?
ADJOURNED
thank you Larry for chairing
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Larry and Ashok to remove the best practises
parts of the P&L document [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]
[32] http://www.w3.org/2012/08/02-tagmem-minutes.html#action01
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [33]scribe.perl version
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$Date: 2012/09/07 13:23:12 $
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--
Baroula que barouleras, au tiéu toujou t'entourneras.
~~Yves
Received on Friday, 7 September 2012 13:41:06 UTC