W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-tag@w3.org > April 2011

Draft TAG minutes for telcon of 2011-03-31 are available

From: Yves Lafon <ylafon@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:23:21 -0400 (EDT)
To: www-tag@w3.org
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.1104010921240.31104@wnl.j3.bet>
online at:

  http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/03/31-minutes.html

and in plain text:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

               Technical Architecture Group Teleconference

31 Mar 2011

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/03/31-agenda

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/03/31-tagmem-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Jeni Tennison, Jonathan Rees, Peter Linss, Dan Appelquist,
           Noah Mendelsohn, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves Lafon, Henry Thompson

    Regrets
           Larry Masinter, Tim Berners-Lee

    Chair
           Noah Mendelsohn

    Scribe
           Yves Lafon

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]convene
          2. [6]approval of minutes
          3. [7]ISSUE-25 (deepLinking-25): Can publication of hyperlinks
             cause copyright infringment?
          4. [8]Offline applications
          5. [9]EXI
          6. [10]Overdue Action Items
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

convene

    there will be a call next week

    <noah> No regrets for next week

    jar to scribe

    Ashok: regrets for april 14 and 21

approval of minutes

    <noah> Minutes at [12]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/03/24-minutes

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/03/24-minutes

    RESOLUTION: minutes of last meeting approved

    Noah: note that it is good practise to send minutes also in text
    mode

    (discussion on the agenda)

ISSUE-25 (deepLinking-25): Can publication of hyperlinks cause
copyright infringment?

    <noah> Reviewing:
    [13]https://docs.google.com/View?id=dgnh4s67_2cv7hf5c7

      [13] https://docs.google.com/View?id=dgnh4s67_2cv7hf5c7

    <noah> Note that the authors have agreed to move this into W3C URI
    space real soon now.

    document is about what publishing Jeni: document on the web really
    means.

    first section is about terminology

    the second section is about users and reusers.

    difference between origin server, cache, replication, aliasing
    (through URI redirect)

    inclusion etc...

    <Zakim> ht_home, you wanted to ask what an "origin server" is

    ht: is the terminology meant to be self-contained? If not what are
    the dependencies

    jeni: what do you mean by that?

    ht: there are technical terms that are not defined here

    jeni: we can have a terminology section added, like for
    origin-server

    (Yves note that origin server definition should be taken from
    "HTTP/1.1, part 1: URIs, Connections, and Message Parsing")

    DKA: we don't want to rehash what's in WebArch doc, just to give a
    framework for discussion

    jar: same as ht, clarification of some words, what does 'access'
    means? copyright laws was defined for the printing press. One of the
    goal is to define the difference between the web and printed press.
    When you copy, you are not printing.

    <noah> Hmm, copyright law may have originated with issues raised by
    the printing press, but there's already now a long history involving
    media like phonograph records, radio, videotape recorders, etc.

    Jeni: it was taken from the definition of 'fetching'

    jar: it boils down to who is responsible for which action

    <Zakim> noah, you wanted to say the document is unclear on the
    degree to which this is intended as backdrop to legal discussion.

    Jeni: with pre-fetching and offline application, some documents
    might be fecthed without the user being responsible for doing it
    explicitely

    <jar> and on the web, each act of copying is joint responsibility of
    two parties, the sender and receiver

    <noah> "This document does not aim to answer these legal questions."

    noah: is the document only on terminology or is it relative to
    copyright law?

    also the document is missing an abstract to do some framing

    <DKA> I actually just took a crack at writing this abstract today
    FYI, Noah - somewhat along the lines you're suggesting...

    <jar> jeni, and dan, i think i forgot to say this when it was my
    term, but I think it's a great start

    jar: the most useful document would be a mix of common sense and
    technical facts. If we want to address legal issues, we should ask
    an attorney for help

    noah: the document can still says that legal issues was the
    motivation for creating the document even if it is not addressing
    legal issues

    <noah> "This document does not aim to answer these legal questions.
    "

    <noah> This implies in a backhanded way that our use of the term
    "distribution" is intended to be legal. If not, that's fine, but
    then let's not imply it is.

    DKA: there is an abstract right now

    Noah: we will need frozen copies for discussions

    (for reference in meeting minutes)

    <noah> Suggestion for abstract:

    <noah> <DKAVersion>

    <noah> This document was written, in part, because of some legal
    issues that were raised to the TAG.

    <noah> </DKAVersion>

    <noah> <suggestedByNoah>

    <noah> This document was written, in part, because of some
    copyright-related legal issues that were raised to the TAG.

    <noah> </suggestedByNoah>

    ashok: following on what jar said, it would be helpful to have a
    lawyer looking at this if not co-authoring.

    jar: lawyers won't give legal advice here, as they would be liable
    for that.

    Noah: who could help (informally) on the legal side to see if there
    is something missing?

    Yves: Rigo Wenning, although he might not have time, but it's worth
    asking

    I will check with him.

    Noah: it should be very high level only.

    jar: I could also ask people

    DKA: we can give technical advice if not legal advice. Like showing
    publisher technical ways of forbidding deep-linking instead of
    putting just legal warnings

    <noah> ACTION-541?

    <trackbot> ACTION-541 -- Jeni Tennison to helped by DKA to produce a
    first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. -- due
    2011-03-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [14]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541

    <noah> ACTION-541 Due 2011-04-12

    <trackbot> ACTION-541 Helped by DKA to produce a first draft of
    terminology about (deep-)linking etc. due date now 2011-04-12

    <noah> ACTION-505?

    <trackbot> ACTION-505 -- Daniel Appelquist to start a document wrt
    issue-25 -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/505

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/505

    <noah> ISSUE-25?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-25 -- What to say in defense of principle that deep
    linking is not an illegal act? -- open

    <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/25

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/25

    DKA: working on this document might also help action-505

    <noah> We're closing 505 because Dan feels 541 is a better path for
    addressing ISSUE-25

    <noah> close ACTION-505

    <trackbot> ACTION-505 Start a document wrt issue-25 closed

Offline applications

    Noah: we have work on offline storage (from Ashok) but there are
    issues about packaging, URIs etc...

    the issue is focusing on packaging. There is work going on about
    widget packaging in WebApps WG

    <jar> [17]http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/

      [17] http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/

    discussions in the HTML-WG on app-cache

    on reuse of documents that were downloaded (while widget define
    mandatory to retrieve content)

    <jar> [18]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#appcache ?

      [18] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#appcache

    dka: there were multiple widget packaging format (adobe, opera,
    nokia...)

    also new formats for new devices (google chrome apps for example).

    the standardization phase did not start yet for widget, in fact we
    see an explosion of formats

    Noah: are you proposing that the TAG should lead unification ?

    DKA: I just proposed this so that the TAG is aware. I don't know who
    should be driving unification.

    ashok: how is packaging webapps different from other packaging?

    DKA: widgets are using ZIP, the main difference is the content

    Noah: the widget community and the HTML5 community are building
    different things. widget seems to define a portable platform that
    happens to use web technologies, while the HTML5 community treat
    webapps like a normal web document. The two approaches are

    different

    DKA: the widget package is not streamable, that was an issue that
    was raised

    ht: it is strange to make a distinction between zip users and http
    users

    <DKA> [19]http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-uri/

      [19] http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-uri/

    noah: in the widget spec, it tells what a widget is, as a format,
    and never talks about network access or HTTP. In that case, you are
    still using HTML CSS and other web technologies. In the HTML5 case,
    it is different as it comes under the assumption that

    it is retrieved through HTTP

    with all documents in the package seen as part of things you might
    have retrieved from the web

    <Zakim> ht_home, you wanted to be confused by Noah contrasting zip
    and http

    Yves: such package can also be seen as a local cache only,
    interacting with the way URI dereferencing is done.

    it depends if there are notions of URIs of the documents that are in
    the package or not

    <Ashok> And, Yves, you said that the targets of the URIs may be
    cached in the package

    Yves: yes

    DKA: work on that subject might be an input for further work done
    elsewhere, like a workshop

    <noah> close ACTION-529

    <trackbot> ACTION-529 Schedule telcon discussion of a potential TAG
    product relating to offline applications and packaged Web closed

    <noah> ACTION Appelquist to propose TAG input, if any, to possible
    workshop on packaged Web apps Due 2011-05-31

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-544 - Propose TAG input, if any, to
    possible workshop on packaged Web apps Due 2011-05-31 [on Daniel
    Appelquist - due 2011-04-07].

EXI

    ht: there are two implementations linked from the WG, 3
    implementations from the interop report that are not indentified.

    nothing newer than that

    <noah> From:
    [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Apr/0060.html

      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Apr/0060.html

    <DKA> Yep.

    <noah> Minutes of April 2010

    <noah> TBL: would like the TAG to get a report on EXI usage at a
    future

    <noah> meeting

    <noah> HT: I think my report at the Cambridge F2F in January covers
    it, propose to close ACTION-421

    <noah> close ACTION-421

    <trackbot> ACTION-421 Frame the discussion of EXI deployment at a
    future meeting closed

Overdue Action Items

    <noah>
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owne
    r

      [21] 
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner

    <DKA> action-514?

    <trackbot> ACTION-514 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft finding on API
    minimization Due: 2011-02-01 -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/514

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/514

    <noah> ACTION-514?

    <trackbot> ACTION-514 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft finding on API
    minimization Due: 2011-02-01 -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/514

      [23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/514

    <noah> ACTION-514 Due 2011-04-12

    <trackbot> ACTION-514 Draft finding on API minimization Due:
    2011-02-01 due date now 2011-04-12

    DKA: no progress, new deadline april 12

    <noah> ACTION-460?

    <trackbot> ACTION-460 -- Daniel Appelquist to coordinate with IAB
    regarding next steps on privacy policy -- due 2011-03-08 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/460

      [24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/460

    <noah> ACTION-460 Due 2011-05-24

    <trackbot> ACTION-460 Coordinate with IAB regarding next steps on
    privacy policy due date now 2011-05-24

    <noah> ACTION-480?

    <trackbot> ACTION-480 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft overview
    document framing Web applications as opposed to traditional Web of
    documents Due: 2010-11-01 -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/480

      [25] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/480

    <noah> ACTION-480 Due 2011-04-12

    <trackbot> ACTION-480 Draft overview document framing Web
    applications as opposed to traditional Web of documents due date now
    2011-04-12

    <noah> ACTION-507?

    <trackbot> ACTION-507 -- Daniel Appelquist to with Noah to suggest
    next steps for TAG on privacy -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/507

      [26] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/507

    <DKA> [27]http://www.w3.org/2011/track-privacy/

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2011/track-privacy/

    <noah> ACTION-507 Due 2011-05-03

    <trackbot> ACTION-507 With Noah to suggest next steps for TAG on
    privacy due date now 2011-05-03

    <noah> ACTION-537?

    <trackbot> ACTION-537 -- Daniel Appelquist to reach out to Web apps
    chair to solicit help on framing architecture (incluing terminology,
    good practice) relating to interaction -- due 2011-03-10 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/537

      [28] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/537

    <noah> DKA: Sent something, haven't heard back.

    <noah> ACTION-537 Due 2011-04-05

    <trackbot> ACTION-537 Reach out to Web apps chair to solicit help on
    framing architecture (incluing terminology, good practice) relating
    to interaction due date now 2011-04-05

    <noah> ACTION-341?

    <trackbot> ACTION-341 -- Yves Lafon to follow up with Thomas about
    security review activities for HTML5 -- due 2011-03-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/341

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/341

    <noah> YL: Organizaitonal work still ongoing, will talk to TLR next
    week.

    <noah> ACTION-341 Due 2011-04-05

    <trackbot> ACTION-341 Follow up with Thomas about security review
    activities for HTML5 due date now 2011-04-05

    <noah> ACTION-525?

    <trackbot> ACTION-525 -- Noah Mendelsohn to check with John before
    closing [30]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/products/2
    WebApps access control -- due 2011-03-29 -- OPEN

      [30] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/products/2

    <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/525

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/525

    <noah> ACTION-525 Due 2011-04-05

    <trackbot> ACTION-525 Check with John before closing
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/products/2 WebApps access
    control due date now 2011-04-05

      [32] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/products/2

    <noah> ACTION-379?

    <trackbot> ACTION-379 -- Noah Mendelsohn to check whether HTML
    language reference has been published -- due 2011-03-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/379

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/379

    <noah> ACTION-379 Due 2011-04-05

    <trackbot> ACTION-379 Check whether HTML language reference has been
    published due date now 2011-04-05

    <noah> ACTION-522?

    <trackbot> ACTION-522 -- Noah Mendelsohn to build Tracker product
    page for HTML/XML Unification -- due 2011-03-29 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/522

      [34] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/522

    <noah> ACTION-522 Due 2011-04-05

    <trackbot> ACTION-522 Build Tracker product page for HTML/XML
    Unification due date now 2011-04-05

    <noah>
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview

      [35] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview

    509 was reopened to trigger discussion when it becomes pending again

    Noah: odds are that there might be a call in two weeks only.

    ADJOURNED

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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-- 
Baroula que barouleras, au tiéu toujou t'entourneras.

         ~~Yves
Received on Friday, 1 April 2011 13:23:25 UTC

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