- From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 12:43:17 -0500
- To: www-tag@w3.org
sorry for the delay...
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/05/06-minutes.html
Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
06 May 2010
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010May/0004.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc
Attendees
Present
Noah_Mendelsohn, DanC, John_Kemp, Jonathan_Rees,
Ashok_Malhotra, Raman, TimBL
Regrets
Chair
Noah Mendelsohn
Scribe
DanC
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Convene, review agenda and records
2. [6]Local arrangements for London F2F
3. [7]W3C Vision
4. [8]Overdue Action Items (cont)
5. [9]Writing resources re hyperlinking
6. [10]HTML Language Reference
7. [11]HTML5 Doctypes, Media-types, & support for older
versions
8. [12]CVS Hints for TAG Members
9. [13]pending actions
10. [14]stakeholders regarding distributed extensibility
* [15]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 06 May 2010
<scribe> scribe: DanC
Convene, review agenda and records
JAR: yes, I can scribe next week
TVR: regrets next week
i.e. 13 May
NM: proposed to approve
[16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/04/22-minutes.html
[16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/04/22-minutes.html
+1
so RESOLVED.
Local arrangements for London F2F
NM: looks like we'll have group activities Mon, Tue
DanC: my travel plans for June have fallen through. Regrets.
W3C Vision
action-418?
<trackbot> ACTION-418 -- Noah Mendelsohn to initiate discussion of
what the TAG thinks of JJ's proposed scoping work, and whether and
if so how the TAG will participate -- due 2010-05-06 --
PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/418
[17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/418
NM: Jeff Jaffe is organizing task forces around W3C
priorities/vision
AM: about how much time?
NM: sort of email and a few calls model, I think
AM: so sporadic?
DC: well, no, fairly regular
<noah> I dont think sporadic, but I doubt there's travel, and I
assume a call or two a week plus email
TBL: what I like to do when looking at things at a high level is
reviewing goals and work items and how they relate ... how/why
diagrams...
... I think Jeff is looking to the TAG to set out the
[goals/missiong?] in terms of the architecture
TVR: I'm less motivated to put together abstract models of W3C work;
I'm more interested in driving actual tasks
<Zakim> noah, you wanted to say I >think< jeff means mission at a
higher level
TBL: yes, there may be some high-level platitudes a la "do good
things" but the job here is to figure out which good things
TVR: ok, yes
... that's pretty much what I was saying
NM: I hear Jeff saying they're crafting higher level prinicples that
would help us choose which things to do
AM: I'm willing, but I sympathize with what TVR was saying re
concrete/specific work
NM: ok, of course you'll bring your own biases; just be clear about
them
<scribe> ACTION: Ashok contact Jeff/PLH regarding particiapation in
W3C core mission TF [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-431 - Contact Jeff/PLH regarding
particiapation in W3C core mission TF [on Ashok Malhotra - due
2010-05-13].
Overdue Action Items (cont)
NM: Ordinarily I'd leave this to the end, but the number of overdue
items is getting unwieldy. We started this last week, but several
people weren't there.
[19]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue
[19] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue
action-381?
<trackbot> ACTION-381 -- Jonathan Rees to spend 2 hours helping Ian
with [20]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/ -- due 2010-04-16 --
OPEN
[20] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/
<trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/381
[21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/381
action-381 due +3 weeks
<trackbot> ACTION-381 Spend 2 hours helping Ian with
[22]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/ due date now +3 weeks
[22] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/
action-403?
<trackbot> ACTION-403 -- Noah Mendelsohn to ensure that TAG responds
to Murata Makoto's request for RelaxNG Schemas for XHTML
(self-assigned) -- due 2010-05-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/403
[23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/403
action-403 due 11 May
<trackbot> ACTION-403 Ensure that TAG responds to Murata Makoto's
request for RelaxNG Schemas for XHTML (self-assigned) due date now
11 May
action-422?
<trackbot> ACTION-422 -- T.V. Raman to examine the current text of
his client state finding and update appropriately with Noah's email
from ACTION-353 -- due 2010-04-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/422
[24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/422
TVR: I did that but just didn't send mail
NM: you covered the maps case?
TVR: I think that's covered by nearby material
<scribe> ACTION: NM to review client state finding update w.r.t.
maps case recorded in [25]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc]
[25] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-432 - Review client state finding update
w.r.t. maps case [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2010-05-13].
action-422: see action-432
<trackbot> ACTION-422 Examine the current text of his client state
finding and update appropriately with Noah's email from ACTION-353
notes added
<noah> action-432 due 2010-05-28
<trackbot> ACTION-432 Review client state finding update w.r.t. maps
case due date now 2010-05-28
<noah> action-432 due 2010-05-18
<trackbot> ACTION-432 Review client state finding update w.r.t. maps
case due date now 2010-05-18
action-422?
<trackbot> ACTION-422 -- T.V. Raman to examine the current text of
his client state finding and update appropriately with Noah's email
from ACTION-353 -- due 2010-04-02 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/422
[26] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/422
action-428?
<trackbot> ACTION-428 -- T.V. Raman to sketch a plan to contact
stakeholders regarding distributed extensibility -- due 2010-04-22
-- OPEN
<trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/428
[27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/428
action-428?
<trackbot> ACTION-428 -- T.V. Raman to sketch a plan to contact
stakeholders regarding distributed extensibility -- due 2010-04-22
-- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/428
[28] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/428
action-430?
<trackbot> ACTION-430 -- Ashok Malhotra to propose a plan for his
contributions to section 5: Client-side state -- due 2010-04-29 --
OPEN
<trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/430
[29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/430
action-430: AM: I've been thinking about this...
<trackbot> ACTION-430 Propose a plan for his contributions to
section 5: Client-side state notes added
action-420 due +2 weeks
<trackbot> ACTION-420 What is different about xhtml basic 1.1 (in
particular re: namespaces) due date now +2 weeks
NM: note end of May is about a week before the ftf
oops! got that number wrong...
ACTION-430 due +2 weeks
<trackbot> ACTION-430 Propose a plan for his contributions to
section 5: Client-side state due date now +2 weeks
action-420 due 29 Apr
<trackbot> ACTION-420 What is different about xhtml basic 1.1 (in
particular re: namespaces) due date now 29 Apr
Writing resources re hyperlinking
action-322?
<trackbot> ACTION-322 -- Dan Connolly to ask W3C management for
writing resources re hyperlinking -- due 2010-03-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [30]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/322
[30] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/322
<noah> DC: I've done it N times
<noah> DC: Recent time I said "punt", nothing will happen, and
people went "whoa, not sure I like that"
"Personally, I think the issue is too important to ignore but I
appreciate how hard it must be to find the specialised resources to
address it.
---Rotan"
<Zakim> jar, you wanted to say I spoke to Thinh Nguyen about this
JAR: I talked with Science Commons counsel about this...
... he says there's little/no law in this area; the courts follow
the technical standards and the technical community...
... he suggested that the way to make progress in the legal setting
is actually to work on specs/standards
... he's willing to speak with us
NM: is he in the BOS area?
JAR: yes, and he's an IP/copyright/patent laywer
DC: sounds like he could be the missing resource we've been looking
for; if not to do writing, at least to review and let us know which
things are likely to be helpful
NM: in these deep linking cases, how do standards get into the
conversation?
... do you put stuff like "intended purpose..." in specs?
JAR: yes, I gather that's helpful
... I'm not sure what the technical scope of the spec would be, but
it would have to be reviewed/ratified by the technical community
... Thinh may be able to help us out in this area
DC: so I could summarize for Thinh
ACTION-322: I'll try to summarize for Thinh
<trackbot> ACTION-322 Ask W3C management for writing resources re
hyperlinking notes added
action-322?
<trackbot> ACTION-322 -- Dan Connolly to ask W3C management for
writing resources re hyperlinking -- due 2010-05-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/322
[31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/322
action-322: note "the lengths that sites go to today to disable deep
linking."
<trackbot> ACTION-322 Ask W3C management for writing resources re
hyperlinking notes added
HTML Language Reference
NM: noting LMM's regrets, not sure how far we can get on this...
action-379?
<trackbot> ACTION-379 -- Larry Masinter to check whether HTML
language reference has been published -- due 2010-03-24 --
PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [32]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/379
[32] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/379
DanC: I've seen interest to publish something a la "HTML 5 syntactic
tools" noting schemas, code, test suites, but wouldn't say "this is
the golden schema"
TVR: things have shifted; HTML 5 was once a reaction to everything
XML; e.g. "validation? rules? no way." that group feels they've
won...
... but there's an appreciation for checking tools
... that's the part we should gently encourage... machine
processable rules
AM: if you allow multiple schemas, you have to show that they accept
the same sets of sentences
<Zakim> noah, you wanted to say I think this is about a RelaxNG
schema that they already have
TVR: well, no, I think a good target is a lattice of schemas
... take the table/tbody stuff...
... having one schema saying tbody is mandatory and another that
says it's optional is sort of OK because [subtleties that are hard
to summarize]
NM: re moving on from schemas... I got the impression that there
_was_ a schema that was being maintained, and we'd encourage
publishing it...
... re multiple schemas... what usually happens is that none of the
schemas expresses *exactly* the language... they accept all the
valid documents and perhaps some others
... so how do we wrap up? well, without LMM and HT, with reluctance,
we'll just leave this action pending
HTML5 Doctypes, Media-types, & support for older versions
<johnk_> ACTION-407?
<trackbot> ACTION-407 -- Henry S. Thompson to propose an update to
DanC's prose from
[33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.htm
l to explicitly reference or encorporate the HTML history, similarly
to the way 2854 does -- due 2010-04-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
[33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.html
<trackbot> [34]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/407
[34] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/407
[35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Apr/thread.h
tml#msg1131
[35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Apr/thread.html#msg1131
<noah>
[36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Apr/0103.html
[36] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Apr/0103.html
same as
[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Apr/1052.htm
l ?
[37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Apr/1052.html
ah... 1052 is too old
<noah> Response from Maciej:
[38]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Apr/0104.html
[38] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Apr/0104.html
<noah> DC: I think we wanted to check that things went well, seems
to me they did
DC: I'm content with where things are / where they're headed
NM: so I guess we're done...
TVR: well, it seems we've abandoned it
DanC: We have succeeded on this one. It is not abandoned.
TVR: isn't the media type registration closely related to the
schemas stuff, which we've left in the someday pile?
DanC: well, that's an interesting question, but separate from this
one, which is about treatment of HTML 2/3.2/4
action-407: indeed, the spec is being updated w.r.t. treatment of
HTML 2/3.2/4
<trackbot> ACTION-407 Propose an update to DanC's prose from
[39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.htm
l to explicitly reference or encorporate the HTML history, similarly
to the way 2854 does notes added
[39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.html
close action-407
<trackbot> ACTION-407 Propose an update to DanC's prose from
[40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.htm
l to explicitly reference or encorporate the HTML history, similarly
to the way 2854 does closed
[40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.html
CVS Hints for TAG Members
action-384?
<trackbot> ACTION-384 -- Noah Mendelsohn to cVS usage edits -- due
2010-05-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [41]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/384
[41] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/384
NM: done in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/coordination/TAGGuide.html
... 14 April 2009
[42] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/coordination/TAGGuide.html
close action-384
<trackbot> ACTION-384 CVS usage edits closed
pending actions
close action-418
<trackbot> ACTION-418 Initiate discussion of what the TAG thinks of
JJ's proposed scoping work, and whether and if so how the TAG will
participate closed
stakeholders regarding distributed extensibility
action-428?
<trackbot> ACTION-428 -- T.V. Raman to sketch a plan to contact
stakeholders regarding distributed extensibility -- due 2010-04-22
-- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> [43]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/428
[43] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/428
TVR: I wonder if "distributed extensibility" is a useful term;
perhaps XML/HTML unification
<Zakim> noah, you wanted to talk about dist extensibility and RDFa
1.1
NM: there was a lot of discussion about RDFa 1.1 at WWW2010...
... I think they have a draft that uses head/@profile
... also, facebook has initiated stuff with RDFa and namespaces...
... though a developer of the facebook stuff was there and said they
expect missing namespaces and they expect to make up the difference
<raman> subject: Apr 22 . me - [ISSUE-41: Facebook open graph
protocol]
TVR: note mail of Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:09:20 -0700 with details
TBL: they are producing RDFa, though they're perhaps not using RDF
best practices... though they're just a few rules away
timbl: The facebook RDFa has the problem that there are statements
that are about things that the page is about, but they are instead
written as statements about the page.
NM: what's interesting to me is that just when the HTML 5 people
were saying "nobody will use these namespace things", facebook goes
and uses them
TBL: there's the question of whether people will write code that
recovers from missing namespace declarations
<DanC_> [I wonder if they handle prefixes other than go:]
<noah> I thought they made some use of dc:
TBL: how about talking with Microsoft's AC rep re extensibility
support?
TVR: yeah... good idea...
<Zakim> jar, you wanted to express desire for brainstorming session
JAR: I can imaging ftf brainstorming about this would be useful
... even over breaks
close action-428
<trackbot> ACTION-428 Sketch a plan to contact stakeholders
regarding distributed extensibility closed
[44]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Apr/0038.html
[44] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Apr/0038.html
<noah> [45]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Apr/0040.html
[45] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Apr/0040.html
<noah> > The TAG, under the leadership of Tim create a small focused
<noah> > task-force charged with fixing XML namespaces to bring
about
<noah> > convergence of HTML and XML.
TBL: yes, that makes sense, though we should be careful not to
pre-judge which things will change
... I'm heartened by the optimism about getting these things
together
TBL polls for interest in participation... NM and TVR express
interest
NM: I'm particularly interested in a consensus that goes beyond the
TAG
TVR: yes, of course
TBL: in fact, the suggestion is to "hatch" it outside the TAG
<scribe> ACTION: DanC to help Tim get in touch with staff etc. re
XML/HTML unification [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc]
[46] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc
<trackbot> Created ACTION-433 - Help Tim get in touch with staff
etc. re XML/HTML unification [on Dan Connolly - due 2010-05-13].
close action-428
<trackbot> ACTION-428 Sketch a plan to contact stakeholders
regarding distributed extensibility closed
ADJOURN
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ashok contact Jeff/PLH regarding particiapation in W3C
core mission TF [recorded in
[47]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: DanC to help Tim get in touch with staff etc. re
XML/HTML unification [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: NM to review client state finding update w.r.t. maps
case recorded in [49]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc]
[47] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc
[48] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc
[49] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-tagmem-irc
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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--
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
gpg D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541 0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Tuesday, 11 May 2010 17:43:12 UTC