- From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:33:12 -0500
- To: www-tag@w3.org
- Cc: Stuart Williams <skw@hp.com>
Stuart Williams was kind enough to share with me his thoughts on the
history and status of TAG ISSUE-57 (httpRedirections-57). I'm taking him
up on his offer to:
> By all means share with that TAG and or www-tag should you
> think it useful.
by forwarding the attached to the TAG's public list. Thank you.
Noah
--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------
----- Forwarded by Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM on 02/24/2009 10:31 PM
-----
"Williams, Stuart (HP Labs, Bristol)" <skw@hp.com>
02/19/2009 12:50 PM
To: "noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com" <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
cc: Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>
Subject: RE: Agenda for TAG Teleconference of 19 February
2009
Hello Noah,
> 6. [17]ISSUE-57 (HttpRedirections-57): The use of HTTP Redirection
> + Background:
> o Extensive email discussion on www-tag@w3.org: what is
> the appropriate means of requesting and returning a
> description of a resource as opposed to a
> representation of the resource (and to what extent are
> we clear on the distinction?)
> o [18]ACTION-178 (assigned to Jonathan Rees) update
> draft of finding on uniform access to metadata
> o [19]Discussion on last week's teleconference of
> [20]ISSUE-36 (siteData-36): Web site metadata
> improving on robots.txt, w3c/p3p and favicon etc.
> o The chair intends to schedule extensive discussion of
> issue-57 at the upcoming F2F.
> + Goals of this session:
> o Clarify what we're actually doing under the heading of
> this issue. There seems to be a lot of multifaceted
> discussion, but it's not clear that we yet agree on
> what we're trying to achieve.
> o Detailed technical discussion (optional: we can leave
> for F2F if that's better).
> o Determine next steps, if any.
FWIW here's my take on issue-57, as I won't be on this evenings call. By
all means share with that TAG and or www-tag should you think it useful.
HttpRedirections-57 arose our of the 'uneasy peace' arising from the TAG
resolution on httpRange-14 the later subsequent discussions that lead to
the TAG 'help' in finalising the publication of
http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris.
Primarily the question for this issue arose frm the email [1] referenced
from the issue's page [2]. On several occassions (though I have not
searched the records) the TAG clarified that it was *not* looking at issue
57 as opportunity to rescind or withdraw the httpRange-14 resolution.
More, it was to look for other approaches that might cut-out one of the
two-round trips otherwise inherent in the use of 303 and/or that were more
practically available to content publishers given typical access to hosted
website configuration.
The other matter mentioned in [1] was UI/bookmarking question wrt to the
URI typically presented to a user in the face of a 303 redirection and the
potential confusion. I don't believe that we have had any significant
discussions of this second aspect.
The various discussions around the use/revival of the http Link: header
are focus squarely on that first topic, ie. of other mechanisms for
finding descriptions than 303 redirections (not that link headers
necessrily reduce the number of redirections). I believe that overall
Jonathan is/was very open to other possible approaches too and has
catalogued a number of suggested alternatives on a wiki page [3] - though
link headers in particular is finding some traction.
IIRC Henry gave only qualified approval [4] to a resolution made at our
May F2F:
Henry tries alternate wording
Dave likes it better
<timbl_> Proposal4a: The TAG recommends the use, for
example for POWDER and metadata
about fixed resources, and GRDDL transformation links;
and further standardization of
the HTTP Link: header as described in
http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-01.txt
<ht> Proposal5: The TAG endorses
http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-01.txt
and standardization of the HTTP Link: header for use
cases such as POWDER and metadata about fixed
resources, and GRDDL transformation links
Resolved without objection
<scribe> ACTION: jonathan to reply publicly to Phil with
respect to our decision on Link: [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2008/05/20-tagmem-irc]
<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-154 - Reply publicly to Phil
with respect to our decision on Link: [on Jonathan Rees - due 2008-05-27].
ACTION-154 resulted in an email from Jonathan [5] which
was partially preempted by an email from me [6] both the Phil Archer.
The scoping of use is/was of important for Henry's support.
A benefit of the Link: header approach with HTTP is that it applies
equally to 'information' and 'non-information' resources, so out-of-line
metadata can be provided/discovered for both. In Jonathan's uses cases
this is particularly important for resources are for whatever reason
immuable.
SO... I think that the real focus has and has always been access to
metadata and finding acceptale alternatives to 303's. In large part the
link header approach has some reaonable momentum... but of late the site
metadata question has also arisen. Jonathan has largely been the active
TAG steward for this issue. Personnally I think that the TAG should
continue to support the Link header based approach and review link header
drafts to make sure they don't go off the rails (eg. shifting back to
representations as opposed to resources as the 'subjects' of link
relations).
Regards
Stuart
--
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Jul/0034
[2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/57
[3] http://esw.w3.org/topic/FindingResourceDescriptions
[4] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/05/20-minutes#item06
[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Jun/0082
[6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Jun/0079
Hewlett-Packard Limited registered Office: Cain Road, Bracknell, Berks
RG12 1HN
Registered No: 690597 England
> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org]
> On Behalf Of noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
> Sent: 17 February 2009 23:29
> To: www-tag@w3.org
> Subject: Agenda for TAG Teleconference of 19 February 2009
>
> A proposed agenda for the TAG teleconference of 16 February 2009 is
> available at [1,2]. A text copy is also provided at the end of this
> email.
>
> Please note that there are only two substantive items for
> discussion this
> week, ISSUE-20 (error handling) and ISSUE-57
> (httpRedirections), and we
> may or may not decide to actually go into detail on the
> latter, which will
> be scheduled for F2F discussion in any case. So, there is
> some chance
> that the call will not go the full 90 minutes. Please alert
> me ASAP if
> you feel there are additional items we should be discussing this week.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Noah
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/02/19-agenda
> [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/tag-weekly
>
> --------------------------------------
> Noah Mendelsohn
> IBM Corporation
> One Rogers Street
> Cambridge, MA 02142
> 1-617-693-4036
> --------------------------------------
>
>
> [1]W3C | [2]TAG | Previous: (Telcon) Prev: [3]12th Feb Next: 26
> February 2009
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/
> [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/
> [3] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/02/12-minutes
>
> Agenda of 19 February 2009 TAG teleconference
>
> Nearby: [4]Teleconference details - [5]issues list and [6]Issue
> Tracker ([7]handling new issues) - [8]www-tag archive - [9]tag
> archive
> 1. Convene
> + Chair: Noah, Scribe: Ashok
> + Roll call -- Regrets: Tim, Henry
> + Agenda Review - [10]this agenda
> + Future Regrets:
> + Next Telcon: Propose 26th Feb 2009; Chair: Noah; Scribe:
> John
> + Future scribes: Larry > Henry > Jonathan
> 2. Approval of Minutes from previous telcons
> + [11]22th Jan 2009: errors in earlier drafts were corrected
> by Henry.
> + [12]12th Feb 2009
> 3. F2F Logistics (Brief)
> + Goals:
> o Alert group that meeting is < 2 weeks away.
> Therefore,
> significant reading materials due in < 1 weeks.
> o Give Ashok an opportunity to provide update on local
> arrangements (if needed)
> o Answer any other participant questions
> 4. F2F Content and Agenda Planning (Brief)
> + Goals:
> o Remind group that chair needs help preparing a
> worthwhile agenda. In particular, the chair solicits
> input (responses via email please) regarding:
> # Open issues, TAG Finding drafts, etc.,
> that would
> merit attention at the F2F.
> # Particular proposals for new directions or areas
> of emphasis for the TAG.
> # The best ways of organizing exploration of those
> new directions.
> # The best ways of using the F2F to bring incoming
> members up to speed on existing work, TAG
> customs, etc.
> 5. [13]ISSUE-20 (errorHandling-20): What should specifications say
> about error handling?
> + Background:
> o Per [14]Henry and Larry are to prepare for discussion
> next week on the 12th, corrected in
> [15]email exchange
> with Henry and Larry
> o Note that [16]ACTION-199 (assigned to Henry Thompson)
> Follow up on error handling thread (8 Oct)
> + Goals of this session:
> o Review discussion to date of issues relating to the
> pros and cons of various ways of providing
> specifications for error handling for processing of
> Web document formats.
> o Decide whether the TAG has an ongoing interest in
> woring in this area, and if so, with what goals.
> o Determine next steps, if any.
> 6. [17]ISSUE-57 (HttpRedirections-57): The use of HTTP Redirection
> + Background:
> o Extensive email discussion on www-tag@w3.org: what is
> the appropriate means of requesting and returning a
> description of a resource as opposed to a
> representation of the resource (and to what
> extent are
> we clear on the distinction?)
> o [18]ACTION-178 (assigned to Jonathan Rees) update
> draft of finding on uniform access to metadata
> o [19]Discussion on last week's teleconference of
> [20]ISSUE-36 (siteData-36): Web site metadata
> improving on robots.txt, w3c/p3p and favicon etc.
> o The chair intends to schedule extensive discussion of
> issue-57 at the upcoming F2F.
> + Goals of this session:
> o Clarify what we're actually doing under the
> heading of
> this issue. There seems to be a lot of multifaceted
> discussion, but it's not clear that we yet agree on
> what we're trying to achieve.
> o Detailed technical discussion (optional: we can leave
> for F2F if that's better).
> o Determine next steps, if any.
> 7. Pending Review Issues: - The following were on agenda for 5 Feb
> 2009 and were not discussed:
> + Issues whose closure is pending review - see bottom of
> [21]Tracker Agenda page.
> o [22]ISSUE-1 w3cMediaType-1 Should W3C WGs
> define their
> own media types? raised 2002-01-09
> o [23]ISSUE-8 namespaceDocument-8 What should a
> "namespace document" look like? raised
> 2002-01-14 - 1
> open action item
> o [24]ISSUE-35 RDFinXHTML-35 Syntax and semantics for
> embedding RDF in XHTML raised 2003-02-06
> o [25]ISSUE-51 selfDescribingWeb-51 Well known formats
> and URI based extensibility. ([26]Finding has been
> published.)
> 8. Overdue Action Items:
> + Overdue action in [27]Tracker
> 9. Any other business
> _________________________________________________________
>
> [4] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/#telcon
> [5] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues
> [6] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/
> [7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2003Jul/0054.
> [8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/
> [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/
> [10] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/02/19-agenda
> [11] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/01/22-minutes
> [12] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/02/12-tagmem-minutes
> [13] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/20
> [14] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/01/29-minutes#item05
> [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2009Feb/0056.html
> [16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/199
> [17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/57
> [18] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/178
> [19] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/01/22-minutes#item02
> [20] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/36
> [21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda
> [22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/1
> [23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/8
> [24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/35
> [25] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/51
> [26]
> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments-2009-02-07.html
> [27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue
>
>
> Noah Mendelsohn for TAG
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Received on Wednesday, 25 February 2009 03:34:06 UTC