- From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:26:04 -0500
- To: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
- Cc: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>, "Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress" <rden@loc.gov>, www-tag@w3.org
Julian Reschke writes: > I think what you're missing is that this is not out of ignorance, but on > purpose: Yes. > "Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material > or to cite them other than as “work in progress”." I'm sympathetic to the notion that citations to IDs should be as "work in progress". I must say I don't find this an even slightly compelling excuse as to why the content should disappear when the draft becomes obsolete. As a member of the community who has been repeatedly frustrated chasing links from old emails to non-existing IDs, it would make far more sense to me that IETF leave the drafts in place for reference, as W3C does with obsolete working drafts, and if you like edit the draft to have a big header that says: this draft has been obsoleted; {work on this has been abandoned | useful other versions may be found at XXXX}. If you really feel a need to remove traces of the text of old versions (which I think is a real loss, because one then can't go back to check what the state of discussion was at that time), then at least put up a page saying: "You have followed a link to Internet draft ID-XXXX, which became obsolete on date DDDDD. For information on the status of this work, see Link-to-status." By the way, I found all of this particularly troubling when I was a newcomer to working with IETF drafts. I would find links to IDs, find the content gone, and had no clue where to go next. Having been around awhile, I can usually guess, but I think there is a large community that doesn't understand this. For the rest of us, it's just a big nuissance. I haven't looked into the nuances of HTTP code 410, but it sounds like the right one to use for this. Noah -------------------------------------- Noah Mendelsohn IBM Corporation One Rogers Street Cambridge, MA 02142 1-617-693-4036 -------------------------------------- Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Sent by: www-tag-request@w3.org 02/12/2009 11:57 AM To: "Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress" <rden@loc.gov> cc: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>, www-tag@w3.org, (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM) Subject: Re: broken links in W3C documents and recommendations Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress wrote: > > From: "Dan Connolly" <connolly@w3.org> >> In fact, this disappearance of documents at those URIs was not due to >> a clerical error on IETF’s webmaster’s part: it is IETF policy >> currently to remove documents which have expired from the official >> “Internet-drafts” repository. > > This IETF practice has been a source of iritation to me for years. I > have links to Internet Drafts in many documents and it would seem that > they could grasp the simple concept of a URI for the "latest version", > as the W3C does. I have spoken with IETF officials about this several > times, and the fact is, they cannot grasp this concept. Maybe someone > in the W3C can explain it to them better than I can. I think what you're missing is that this is not out of ignorance, but on purpose: "Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as “work in progress”." BR, Julian
Received on Thursday, 12 February 2009 17:25:17 UTC