- From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:36:53 -0800
- To: Mikael Nilsson <mikael@nilsson.name>
- Cc: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com, "Sean B. Palmer" <sean@miscoranda.com>, www-tag@w3.org
>On tis, 2007-12-18 at 02:16 -0800, Pat Hayes wrote: >> >On tis, 2007-12-18 at 01:58 -0800, Pat Hayes wrote: >> >> There is no such thing, I suggest, as >> >> a webarch:representation of an RDF graph, just as >> >> there is no such thing as one of the number zero >> >> or the fourth moon of Jupiter. >> > >> > >> >If I can't faithfully represent the number 0 using a message, I don't >> >know of anything I can faithfully represent. >> >> Which is why I think the 'faithfully represent' >> criterion is incorrect. I think it was meant to >> capture a case like the HTML case, where what is >> transmitted is pretty much an exact copy of the >> resource itself, but to be generalized to cases >> like scripted HTML, a reduced image, a webcam or >> a clock, etc.. ; but that cases like numbers and >> RDF graphs are in fact counterexamples which show >> that the criterion as stated isn't in fact >> adequate to capture the intended intuitions. > >I can't for the world see how numbers and RDF graphs can fall into the >same category. They are both mathematical abstractions. An RDF graph is defined to be a mathematical set: its not a data structure or an expression. >But let's stay with RDF graphs.... > >FWIW, an HTML page is a set of tags, organized in a tree. No, an HTML *page* is a series of characters. Anything that can be encoded in a byte stream is a sequence of characters. It might *describe* something abstract, like a tree, but we are here talking about what it IS, not what it describes. (OK, I'm being pedantic. BUt really, we have to be pedantic when trying to get use/mention issues clear, otherwise we will descend into muddle.) >What makes >that different from an RDF graph? Similarly with the distinction between an RDF graph - a mathematical abstraction - and some RDF/XML - a piece of XML, which is a sequence of characters conforming to some syntactic constraints. If you can write a grammar for it, its a sequence of characters. Pat > I > >I'd like some of that "intuition" too :-/ > >/Mikael > >> Certainly a number is *not* something that can be >> rationally thought of as being at the end of an >> HTTP protocol, or that can have operations >> performed on it by a POST. > > > >> >> Pat >> >> >/Mikael >> > >> >> >> >> Pat >> >> >> >> > >> >> >/Mikael >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Compare sending a numeral in some text, using some >> >> >> numerical convention, vs. sending an actual number. Maybe if >> >> >> 'lossless' is the sole criterion, then numbers are IRs also, since >> >> >> the literal "123"^^xsd:number seems to be an encoding of the number >> >> >> one hundred and twenty three with perfect fidelity. But I'm betting >> >> >> that this isn't what was originally intended by the IR idea. >> >> >> >> >> >> Pat >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >-- >> >> ><mikael@nilsson.name> >> >> > >> >> >Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home >> >> 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office >> >> Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax >> >> FL 32502 (850)291 0667 cell >> >> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >-- >> ><mikael@nilsson.name> >> > >> >Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose >> >> >-- ><mikael@nilsson.name> > >Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32502 (850)291 0667 cell phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Tuesday, 18 December 2007 10:37:08 UTC