- From: Paul Cotton <pcotton@microsoft.com>
- Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:12:09 -0800
- To: "Norman Walsh" <Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM>, <www-tag@w3.org>
> Present > Ed, Vincent, Stuart, Henry, Tim, Dave, Dan, Roy, Noah, Norm, > Chris I was present as well. /paulc Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada 17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3 Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329 mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com > -----Original Message----- > From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of > Norman Walsh > Sent: March 7, 2005 1:00 PM > To: www-tag@w3.org > Subject: Draft minutes of 28 Feb 2005 f2f > > Sorry for the delay. I've now published draft minutes[1] of the 28 Feb > 2005 > f2f meeting based on a lightly edited copy of the IRC log[2]. A text > copy is included below for convenience. > > Boston TAG F2F > > 28 Feb 2005 > > See also: IRC log > > Attendees > > Present > Ed, Vincent, Stuart, Henry, Tim, Dave, Dan, Roy, Noah, Norm, > Chris > > Regrets > > Chair > Vincent > > Scribe > Norm > > Contents > > * Topics > 1. Face-to-face meeting planning > 2. Issue list management > 3. Dinner for tonight > 4. Quarterly reports > 5. Maintaining WebArch > 6. Reallocate actions and documents "owned" by departing TAG > members > 7. New Directions > 8. RDFinXHTML-35 > 9. binary XML > 10. RDFinXHTML-35 > * Summary of Action Items > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > <h1> IRC log of tagmem on 2005-02-28</h1> > > <p> <em>Timestamps are in UTC.</em></p> > > Date: 28 Feb 2005 > > <DanC_lap> Agenda: <a > href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/02/28- > agenda.html">http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/02/28-agenda.html</a> > > <DanC_> Chair: Vincent > > <DanC_> Scribe: Norm > > <DanC_> (HT is hobbled; laptop broke; envious of timbl's ski tags) > > <dorchard> (razzes HT about possessing computing) > > <DanC_> VQ reviews agenda... > > <DanC_> agenda is OK > > <DanC_> RESOLVED to accept them as a true record > > <DanC_> VQ: next meeting 8 March. > > <DanC_> Regrets DanC, HT. DO at risk > > <DanC_> Regrets DanC, HT, VQ. DO at risk > > <DanC_> NDW to chair > > <DanC_> Ed to scribe 8 Mar > > <DanC_> -> <a > > href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/TechnicalPlenaryLiaisons.html"> ht > tp://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/TechnicalPlenaryLiaisons.html</a> > Tentative TAG Liaison Meeting Schedule > > <DanC_> Revision 1.30 2005/02/28 01:38:08 > > <DanC_> VQ: all joint meetings are in the other group's room > > Plan to discuss web services endpoints and URIs w/WS WG > > Plan to meet with Compound Documents Format WG > > Discuss: mixed namespace documents > > Plan to meet with XML Core WG on Thur > > Discuss: future of XML/xml:id and C14N/xmlChunk-44 > > DanC: agenda request to discuss binary XML > > Plan to meet with Voice Browser and Schema on Thur afternoon > > Face-to-face meeting planning: > > Face-to-face meeting planning > > 8-10 June in/near Cannes, FR > > W3C Team in Sophia is offering to organize the meeting as expected > > The location they propose is at Inria in Sophia > > Henry offers 8-10 June in Edinburgh > > TimBL sends regrets, plans to participate by phone > > <timbl> By videophone. > > <timbl> I meant. > > <timbl> DC, DO, VQ, NM, ER france > > <timbl> TBL abstains > > We will meet in/near Cannes for the June meeting > > 20-22 Sep in Kansas City > > Hosted by DanC > > <a > > href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/TechnicalPlenaryLiaisons.html"> ht > tp://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/01/TechnicalPlenaryLiaisons.html</a> > > Discussion of Edinburgh in Sep > > 20-22 Sep in Edinburgh?, something with the AC?, KC in early 2006? > > We will meet in Edinburgh, 20-22 Sep 2005 > > Issue list management > > VQ proposes to take the discussion offline with a few volunteers > > IJ was taking minutes and keeping the list up-to-date, we're not doing > as > good a job > > PC notes that the fact that the issue pointed back to the minutes where > it > was last discussed was a huge value add > > VQ asks for volunteers: ER, SW, IJ, and VQ. > > VQ will organize and get a proposal for the next telcon > > Dinner for tonight > > Noah reports the time is 7:30p at a restaurant in the North End > > Noah will try to move it earlier and report back > > Quarterly reports > > CL notes that we're delinquent > > PC reminds us that IJ used to do this > > <noah> Amy is not on IRC at the moment, will try to reach her later. > > It is useful to get a report out in advance of the AC meetings > > <scribe> ACTION: SW volunteers to draft a report for this quarter > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem- > irc] > > Maintaining WebArch > > CL sent some mail: > > <DanC_> -> <a > > href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/webarch/errata.html">http://www.w3.org/ 20 > 01/tag/webarch/errata.html</a> > webarch errata > > <a > href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www- > tag/2005Feb/0188.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www- > tag/2005Feb/0188.html</a> > > Norm notes that this is comment is similar to one from Mark Baker > > HT summarizes the meaning of an erratum > > NW offers to construct an erratum page > > <scribe> ACTION: NW offers to construct an erratum page [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > <DanC_> construct an ereratum page? it's already there. > > <DanC_> I'd like NDW to ack the problem report on the errata page > > <scribe> ACTION: NW to frame the erratum as proposed by CL as an entry > for > the erratum page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc > /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > <DanC_> RESOLVED: to adopt erratum proposed by CL in <a > href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www- > tag/2005Feb/0188.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www- > tag/2005Feb/0188.html</a> > > Reallocate actions and documents "owned" by departing TAG members > > VQ asks CL, PC, and SW if they could in the next few days summarize the > items that they are still working on for the TAG > > <scribe> ACTION: CL to send a summary of the items he "owns" [recorded > in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > <scribe> ACTION: SW to send a summary of the items he "owns" [recorded > in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > <scribe> ACTION: PC to send a summary of the items he "owns" [recorded > in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > New Directions > > VQ asks if we have plans for a second volume > > DanC suggests educational material > > DanC also suggests that extensibility and versioning would be a good > second volume > > Noah asks about WWW 2005 > > VQ observes that there is a W3C track at the conference > > <Chris> re: erratum, sent to public-webarch-comments. <a > href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webarch- > comments/2005JanMar/0001.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/publi c- > webarch-comments/2005JanMar/0001.html</a> > > <DanC_> (hmm... talking about WWW2005 seems in order during "new > directions"... table it in favor of what, I wonder?) > > PC: when we triaged the issues list for V1, we explicitly excluded some > issues, it would make sense to look at all the issues we didn't want to > do > for V1 > > dorchard: I support E&V, but there's an architecture piece we haven't > talked about: XML Architecture > ... xml:id, binary XML, XML Chunk, these all feel like questions about > XML > at the border but I think that there's the question of XML going > forward > ... I think that it would be fruitful for the TAG to look at this issue > > SW asks if XML Core or XML CG does hits > > DO observes that there's a constallation of XML-related WGs and it > seems > to me that the CG was more of a coordination body not a technical > coordinator. More process than technical. > > timbl: a lot of the things we've been patching up are related to these > areas on the borders > ... I think we'll be working on XML as part of our broader scope > ... One possibility is to try to do a more formal system to describe > some > of the things that we've been saying > ... Another possibility is to try to tackle Web Services, SemWeb, web > applications > ... Web applications is a huge new architectural issue and maybe we > could > try to do some more timely work > > DanC: I'm interested to do web applications, but I'm not sure how. It'd > be > interesting to have someone come and present "GMail" to us. Some > education > from experts would be useful. > > <Zakim> timbl, you wanted to mention 1) making a more formal > description > to exiting areas as one direction and 2) going into areas which we > excluded, such as web services, semantic web, > > noah: I agree with a lot of what TimBL said, but I think we need to put > some effort into making sure the web stays a current platform > > <Zakim> noah, you wanted to say that we have probably missed some > particulars that are close to scope of AWWW vol 1 > > noah: I think we should be asking ourselves which problems the web > should > be solving over the next few years and if the architectural pieces we > have > available are the right ones > ... In the completely opposite direction there are some things that we > didn't put in V1 thatcould have gone in V1 and we should be willing to > tackle those as well. > ... I think we shouldn't narrow this too much right away, we should > give > ourselves a license to noodle around in these spaces for a few months > to > see which ones we might be good at > > dorchard: Is there an intermediate ground in the formalism space? > ... I did try to put some more formal models in some of the findings I > worked on > > DO mentioned UML and TimBL expresses that he thinks a UML model is > mathematical > > DanC: I'd like to finish some of that stuff > > dorchard: I wanted some of these models in V1 and we decided not to do > that. But maybe we could do it as an add-on > > <DanC_> -> <a > > href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/fdesc54/">http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/fd es > c54/</a> > WebArch Diagrams > > DanC discusses his ideas for "tip of the day" on the W3C validator page > > VQ notes that he's been asked several times for educational materials. > Teachers like the WebArch document. > > <DanC_> -> <a > href="http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/">http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/</a> > Quality > Tips for Webmasters > > <DanC_> (tip of the day was an idea a long time ago; it's in production > now) > > VQ asks if we have enough resources to develop teaching materials > > <DanC_> (ooh... interesting, timbl... bounties for what we want) > > TimBL asks if we couldn't ask the public for some things that we'd like > to > see: an elementary-school level of webarch, etc. > > ER there's two topics: current and future so should we have to > addresses? > > <DanC_> -> <a > > href="http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties/document_view">http: // > www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties/document_view</a> > ubuntu bounties > > <DanC_> "The 2004 budget for bounties is USD 100,000." > > HT seconds DanC's suggestion: you write a good webarch educational > document and we'll link to it from our home page > > Noah asks if we're offering to link to just a few things or to > everything > > DanC volunteers to act as editor for educational materials > > There will need to be some decisions about how the licensing works > > <DanC_> ACTION: DanC to make an "educational materials" page, describe > what we're interested in, and set expectations [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > <Roy> <a > href="http://apache.hpi.uni- > potsdam.de/document/">http://apache.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/document/</a> > > Observer Jacek Kopecky expresses interet and wonders if it shouldn't > apply > to the whole W3C suite of technologies > > <DanC_> ACTION: DanC to let QA and w3t-comm know about TAG's > educational > materials ideas and relay JK's note about coordiated materials > [recorded > in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > VQ summarizes: I think we have a consensus that we should spend some > time > on that and precisely to make a first step in that direction by doing > an > experiment as described above. We should announce that on www-tag and > suggest using that mailing list as a way to submit material to us. > > HT: TimBL mentioned some things about formalizing which connects up > with > discussions that occurred just before publication. There was an > implication that some things would be on the table wrt httpRange-14. > That > issue ties together a lot of issues. I'd like us to do some more work > on > that. > ... In the next couple of days HT (and colleagues) will be proposing a > workshop at the SemWeb conference in Galway in Nov(?) > > <DanC_> -> <a > > href="http://iswc2005.semanticweb.org/">http://iswc2005.semanticweb.org/ </ > a> > 6th - 10th November 2005 > > <DanC_> Galway, Ireland > > SW: There are some large issues that it's disappointing to leave > unfinished > > Noah suggests that we could write a document that actually lays out the > boundaries of the question > > noah: set expectations that we're not going to expect everyone to read > all > the traffic on the issue, that we're going to start by trying to net > the > problem out > > RDFinXHTML-35 > > binary XML > > <DanC_> -> <a > href="http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-xbc-use-cases- > 20050224/">http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-xbc-use-cases-20050224/</a> > XML Binary Characterization Use Cases > > They think they're done > > DanC should I pursue my concerns here or elsewhere: > > DanC has some concerns: I disagree with a lot of their use cases > > DanC: I don't think they've articulated their case very successfully > > DO concurs to review it > > PC suggests we start with CL's original summary of the issue > > <DanC_> rather: I *do* think they've articulated their use cases pretty > well (and thanks for that! lots of WGs don't). But I am not convinced > by > the argument they make > > <Chris> binaryXML-30: > > <Chris> Standardize a "binary XML" format? > > <Chris> <a > href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#binaryXML- > 30">http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#binaryXML-30</a> > > <Chris> I sent in a summary, earlier on. The ball has passed to the XBC > WG, I do > > <Chris> not consider myself to be critical path on this one. XBC is > nearly > > <Chris> completed, TAG has said it will review their deliverables. I > suggest > > <Chris> inviting Robin Berjon to a TAG call to discuss this. > > <Chris> <a > href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www- > tag/2005Feb/0248.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www- > tag/2005Feb/0248.html</a> > > <Chris> the above email closes my action item > > Noah notes that we should try to decide if we're going to try to get in > the critical path of whether or not a new WG is spun up > > dorchard: I think I would like the TAG to review that material sooner > rather than later. And as an AC rep, I would like the TAGs review > before I > was asked to make a decision. > ... We should say quite loudly that we plan on reviewing it > > <Chris> future of xml - mention XBC > > <noah> The TAG is chartered to document and build consensus around > principles of Web architecture and to interpret and clarify these > principles when necessary. The XML Binary Characterization Working > Group > consult with the Technical Architecture Group regarding the properties > of > XML and refer issues to the TAG when necessary. The Working Group is > also > expected to provide feedback regarding issue binaryXML-30. > > <noah> Above is from charter of Binary characterization WG > > Henry agrees to review the documents > > <scribe> ACTION: HT to review the XBC documents with help from Noah > [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem- > irc] > > RDFinXHTML-35 > > <a > > href="http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/specbg.html">http://www.w3.org/2004 /0 > 1/rdxh/specbg.html</a> > > <timbl> I note that the XML BCP does not contain "ASN" > > DanC describes GRDDL > > <Chris> <a > > href="http://inamidst.com/grddl/demo">http://inamidst.com/grddl/demo</a> > > DanC describes how creative commons and open archives are working > together > to make this work > > <Chris> <a > > href="http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec">http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdx h/ > spec</a> > > <Chris> DanC describes special XHTML 2 syntax for RDF > > DanC notes some developments in XHTML 2.0 to deal with RDF > > Norm gives Dan's rdxh/spec document a thumbs up > > CL asks why you can't just read the RDF out of the XML > > TimBL notes that it does get transformed, it strips out all the SVG > > <noah> TimBl specifically noted that it's not in general safe to trust > Tags such as <metadata> unless licensed by the specification for the > language in which they appear. For example, you may have > <dontTrustContents><metadata>....</metadata></dontTrustContents> > > HT notes that this approach is different from the more general case of > adding, for example, declarations to a schema > > HT observes that you have to trust the XSLT > > <Chris> Dan says that the 'yes believe the RDF here' attributes should > be > part of the standard library > > <scribe> ACTION: DanC to continue working on this [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > DanC: is WS-A using IRC? > > How's it going? > > Is there a two sentence summary? > > <Vincent> Norm, what's the uri of the irc log of the Tag f2f? > > Vincent: <a > href="http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem- > irc">http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc</a> > > <Vincent> Norm, I get a 403 Forbidden > > <dorchard> Noah, TimBl here? > > <noahf2fRoom> Noah's here > > <timbl> Hi > > <noah> Hi tim > > <noah> I think we agreed to assemble at 18:30 by main door of hotel to > begin debate on whether to take Taxi or "T" :-) > > <noah> OK? > > <timbl> OK > > <timbl> I'll drive anyway > > <timbl> Do we have an address? > > <noah> OK. Yes, it was in email from me when I announced it, but I'll > get > it for you in a minute. The simple answer is that it's just off Hanover > St. in the North End, very near the end of Hanover St. that's by the > big > dig. > > <noah> I'll get exact addresss. > > <noah> Unfortunately, I have no clue on parking down there. > > <noah> Ida's > > <noah> 3 Mechanic St. > > <noah> 617-523-0015 > > <timbl> well done. > > <noah> That's Ida's restaurant. Alan Kotok set it up with Amy. > > <noah> More info in email at <a > > href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Feb/0042.html">http:// li > sts.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2005Feb/0042.html</a> > > <noah> And thank you. > > <noah> Glad you're joining us. > > <timbl> > > http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addto hi > story=&searchtab=home&address=3+mechanic+street&city=Boston&state=ma&zip co > de= > > <timbl> Oh yes, its very near public parking like Faneuil hall etc > > <noah> See picture at: <a > > href="http://www.planet99.com/boston/restaurants/11639.htm">http://www.p la > net99.com/boston/restaurants/11639.htm</a> > > <noah> I'm up in Henry's room (lending him my laptop). We're heading > down > now. See you at the restaurant. > > <noah> over n out? > > <timbl> > > http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&un=m&cl=EN&ct=NA& rs > res=1&1ex=1&1aa=ce41fYwt9%252bwngixA63tuKWkg0HDA%252by2QFIo3DwCxsSpd3dV0 As > fP1fBM1VA7KVAB5Wjc8cbagMm%252bk3qpL0MrNVfF5xNPAKvnqCADHoWRBrA%253d&1ah=& 2y > =US&2a=3+Mechanic+St&2c=Boston&2s=MA&2z=02113-2336&2ah= > > <timbl> Ok > > <timbl> I'm happy to take 2 people > > <noah> OK, well as I say, they're all planning to assemble at front > door > for big debate on transport modes. > > <noah> Feel free to join us for that. Dinner's not officially until > 7:30, > though walking in North End's surely as pleasant as being in the hotel. > > <noah> Heading down now. > > Summary of Action Items > > [NEW] ACTION: CL to send a summary of the items he "owns" [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: DanC to continue working on this [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: DanC to let QA and w3t-comm know about TAG's educational > materials ideas and relay JK's note about coordiated materials > [recorded > in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: DanC to make an "educational materials" page, describe > what > we're interested in, and set expectations [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: HT to review the XBC documents with help from Noah > [recorded > in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: NW offers to construct an erratum page [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: NW to frame the erratum as proposed by CL as an entry for > the erratum page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc > /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: PC to send a summary of the items he "owns" [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: SW to send a summary of the items he "owns" [recorded in > http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > [NEW] ACTION: SW volunteers to draft a report for this quarter > [recorded > in http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc /tmp/28-tagmem-irc] > > [End of minutes] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.115 (CVS log) > $Date: 2005/03/07 17:58:40 $ > > Be seeing you, > norm > > [1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/02/28-minutes.html > [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-tagmem-irc > > -- > Norman.Walsh@Sun.COM / XML Standards Architect / Sun Microsystems, Inc. > NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. > Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by > reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
Received on Monday, 7 March 2005 19:12:42 UTC