- From: Rice, Ed (HP.com) <ed.rice@hp.com>
- Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:48:56 -0700
- To: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>, "Don Box" <dbox@microsoft.com>
- Cc: "Andrew Layman" <andrewl@microsoft.com>, "Paul Cotton" <pcotton@microsoft.com>, <www-tag@w3.org>
Yes, that's correct :) Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com [mailto:noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:48 PM To: Don Box Cc: Andrew Layman; Rice, Ed (HP.com); Paul Cotton; www-tag@w3.org Subject: RE: Andrew Layman and Don Box Analysis of XML Optimization Techniques Ed Rice wrote: > I've read the binary xml and we could discuss in detail, Clarification: I strongly suspect that Ed means he read and is commenting on the work product of the XML Binary Characterization Workgroup, not the followup analysis by Andrew Layman and Don Box that's referred to in the subject line of this thread. -------------------------------------- Noah Mendelsohn IBM Corporation One Rogers Street Cambridge, MA 02142 1-617-693-4036 -------------------------------------- "Don Box" <dbox@microsoft.com> Sent by: www-tag-request@w3.org 04/06/2005 06:11 PM To: "Rice, Ed \(HP.com\)" <ed.rice@hp.com>, <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>, <www-tag@w3.org> cc: "Andrew Layman" <andrewl@microsoft.com>, "Paul Cotton" <pcotton@microsoft.com> Subject: RE: Andrew Layman and Don Box Analysis of XML Optimization Techniques Ed, I couldn't agree with your assessment more. This is why Microsoft is exploring optimizations that keep us in the text realm, first with PASwA/MTOM and now with this new proposal that addresses both opaque and structured data. DB -----Original Message----- From: Rice, Ed (HP.com) [mailto:ed.rice@hp.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:41 PM To: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com; www-tag@w3.org Cc: Andrew Layman; Don Box; Paul Cotton Subject: RE: Andrew Layman and Don Box Analysis of XML Optimization Techniques I've read the binary xml and we could discuss in detail, however in summary I would say my concerns are as follows; 1) There is nothing which really proves the binary xml format provides more of a performance impact than doing something like optimization of the streaming processes. The Binary is clearly more compact for data transmissions but opening, validating, compacting/de-compacting could be quite expensive. So what's the Net? Its probably dependant upon the xml file size and the power of the processor. 2) One of the basic ideas around xml is that it be human readable. Binary violates this basic premise. 3) Since Binary xml discussed including dictionaries, random access, random updates to the files, this clearly is more brittle and where an application receives a partial file it really wouldn't be usable (instead its just corrupt) as opposed to xml where you have partial information. I also have to say, the use cases were very interesting. However, after spelling out all the problems with xml to turn and say 'Binary xml would solve this' without support or explaining seemed a little wrong. -Ed -----Original Message----- From: www-tag-request@w3.org [mailto:www-tag-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:31 PM To: www-tag@w3.org Cc: andrewl@microsoft.com; Don Box; Paul Cotton Subject: Andrew Layman and Don Box Analysis of XML Optimization Techniques The TAG has recently given some attention telcons to the question of Binary XML and to the conclusions of the XML Binary Characterization Working Group [1]. I've recently become aware of an analysis by Andrew Layman and Don Box that may be of interest [2]. I believe their work supports the following conclusions: * An alternative to binary XML, Andrew and Don show that a LISP-like text syntax "(...) may optimize better than the existing "<...>" approach. * As some of us stated repeatedly, detailed experimental measurements and even formal performance models are essential to justifying any particular approach to optimization. I suggest we consider these important results in any future discussions. Noah [1] http://www.w3.org/2005/04/05-tagmem-minutes.html [2] http://strongbrains.com/misc/XMLPerf20050401.htm -------------------------------------- Noah Mendelsohn IBM Corporation One Rogers Street Cambridge, MA 02142 1-617-693-4036 --------------------------------------
Received on Thursday, 7 April 2005 01:49:14 UTC