- From: Ian B. Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:53:51 -0500
- To: www-tag@w3.org
- Message-Id: <1087494831.4577.33.camel@seabright>
Hello,
Minutes of the TAG's 14 June 2004 teleconference are
available as HTML [1] and as text below.
_ Ian
[1] http://www.w3.org/2004/06/14-tag-summary.html
====================================================
Minutes of 14 June 2004 TAG teleconference
In Memoriam
Resolved: The TAG regrets the tragic loss of Mario Jeckle.
1. Administrative
1. Roll call: DC, NW, CL, PC, RF, SW (Scribe). Regrets: TBL, IJ
2. Resolved to accept the [8]minutes of the 7 June teleconf?
3. Accepted this [9]agenda
4. Next meeting 21 June?
5. Resolved upcoming schedule:
+ 21 Jun: cancelled
+ 28 Jun: teleconf (next meeting)
+ 5 Jul: cancelled
+ 12 July: teleconf
6. Action TBL 2004/05/12: Talk to TB and DO about editor role.
7. NW to Chair during SW absence 19 and 26 July.
[8] http://www.w3.org/2004/06/07-tag-summary.html
[9] http://www.w3.org/2004/06/14-tag.html
1.1 Meeting schedule
Action TAG 2004/06/07: Send summer regrets to TAG list.
1. AC meeting [10]rescheduled for 2-3 December. Does this affect
whether to hold TAG ftf meeting in November?
2. Ottawa meeting update?
Action NW/PC: Prepare ftf meeting agenda.
3. 5-7 October Basel meeting update?
[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2004AprJun/0050.html
1.3 TAG Charter
Action IJ 2004/06/07: Report back on next AB meeting to discuss TAG
charter and relation to patent policy.
[No change].
2. Technical
See also [11]open actions by owner and [12]open issues.
[11] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/actions_owner.html
[12] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?view=normal&closed=1
Completed action items:
1. Resolved completed action IJ 2004/05/24/: Announce the closure of
issue URIEquivalence-15. See [13]proposal to drop this action.
2. [14]Request from Chris to confirm that three action items
completed. Resolved done or moot.
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2004May/0070.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2004Jun/0010.html
2.1 xml11Names-46
1. Resolved completed action NW 2004/06/07: Write up [15]XML 1.1
Question for the TAG. If there are no objections to formulation,
forward to the XML CG on behalf of TAG. ([16]Proposed)
2. Resolved to forward NW's summary to XML CG. Norm and Paul have
already discussed with XML CG who are willing to pick this up
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004May/0039.html
[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Jun/0004.html
2.2 httpRange-14 status
Action TBL/RF 2004/05/13: Write up a summary position to close
httpRange-14, text for document.
[No change].
2.3 IRI draft status in IETF
The IRI spec has moved on since the TAG's [17]22 March 2004
discussion. Martin Duerst has sumbitted the [18]08 draft to the IESG
for approval. The concerns expressed in [a] centred around lack of
maturity of the spec. and lack of delployment and usage experience.
[17] http://www.w3.org/2004/03/22-tag-summary.html
[18] http://www.w3.org/mid/4.2.0.58.J.20040601174624.06b549f8@localhost
[skw-scribe]
DC: Reminds TAG wrt request to remove IRI section 7 from
Charmod Fundementals. Introduces note from i18n seeking
clarification.
RF: The IRI specification is not done yet.
CL: I accept this in theory, but in practice it becomes
vanishingly less likely. I find their argument reasonably
well-made but not (yet?) convincing.
DC: Recap's on TAG request to split Charmod.
RF: As long as i18n are willing to accept the dependency on IRI
wrt Charmod progress to REC.... wouldn't recommend it, but they
could do that. IRI isn't done until the IESG say that it is.
I'd prefer that they split it out.
CL: I18N are arguing that testing should be addressed in IRI
spec rather than Charmod.
DC: Looks very much like a normative reference.
[Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note Roy seems to be answering one of the
I18N WG's questions "2. Is the concern about the draft status
of the IRI document or about the maturity of IRIs as a
technology?"
[skw-scribe]
DC: Question from i18n: are we concern about maturity of spec.
or the IRI technology.
RF: Explains that IESG will be very concerned about anything
that affects/impacts DNS. Concerns over where Punycode gets
done. Both URI and IRI are consistent, BUT both are I-Ds and
may both encounter pushback from IESG.
CL: There is deployment experience in Korea?
RF: Some implementations in browsers...
CL: Was talking about DNS more generally.?
RF: It's deployed elsewhere too... Poland...
[Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to voice an I18N WG question about tests
[skw-scribe]
PC: Does the note from i18n require a response.?
DC: Yes. Addressing the question what should we test... quoting
"IE, Opera, Safari have been doing the right thing...."
[Chris]
opera and safari and mozilla do the utf-8 to punycode
conversion on dereference
[skw-scribe]
DC: Testing all the specs that reference the IRI spec is not,
should not be the job of i18n.
CL: Can't really just say that these things are doing the right
thing. Need test cases that can be separately verified.
SW: Asks whether IRI spec contains test case cf test cases as
in URI spec.
CL: That would be hard in an ascii based doc.
[Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to follow up on Roy's point about accepting a
normative reference to the IRI spec
[skw-scribe]
CL: I would like them to exist in the form that they are to be
used.
SW: Clarifies interest is in the existence of such test,
comparible with tests in URI spec.
DC/CL: Could request clarification of normative nature of
reference to IRI spec.
NW: 3 options
1. something about test assertions.
2. point out that the reference appears to be normative but
isn't
3. ask them to acknowledge that they understand that the IRI
spec isn't far enough along to normatively reference and ask
what they propose to do about that
[DanC]
1: in response to their question of what to test, suggest that
"browsers do the right thing" is worth testing
[skw-scribe]
PC: Question... isn't there a problem wrt to i18n declaiming
responsibility for testing IRI implementation?
CL: ...yes I agree.
[DanC]
(yes, that "not the job of the I18N WG" comment gave me pause)
[skw-scribe]
CL: reiterates previous aquisence was on the basis of the need
for testing.
[Norm]
4: TAG believes that I18N within the W3C needs to get clear
understanding with other working groups about who holds the
responsiblity for testing I18N features in the other specs
[DanC]
I can't sign up to 4: yet
[skw-scribe]
DC: I think that their position is reasonable - that that WG
bears responsibilty for own testing of i18n features.
PC: Possibly need a test-suite that sweeps across multiple
specs.
[Chris]
the i18n wg could help ensure that individual wgs do in fact
test things like use of non-english tet, etc (not just in iris)
[skw-scribe]
DC: You've identified a problem, but it may not be the most
constructive thing to address that at i18n.
NW: Are we at point of dimishing returns wrt this immediate
discussion.
[Chris]
ACTION CL: draft text and send to TAG for review
2.4 Web Architecture Document Last Call
See the 8 [19]June 2004 Editor's Draft. Assign reviewers to specific
sections?
* Action NW 2004/05/14: Propose text on tradeoffs for section 4.2.2.
* Action CL 2004/05/14: Rewrite story at beginning of 3.3.1.
Consider deleting para that follows last sentence third para after
story in 3.3.1. "Note also that since dereferencing a URI (e.g.,
using HTTP) does not involve sending a fragment identifier to a
server or other agent, certain access methods (e.g., HTTP PUT,
POST, and DELETE) cannot be used to interact with secondary
resources."
* Completd Action IJ: Remove the middle bullet from 2.3 (done in 8
June draft).
* Action TBL 2004/06/08: For issue hawke7, ask Sandro for
clarification on whether second URI should have "#". Done: Sandro
said that the hashes were not the point, but that the point was
that in the context of dereferencing, it does matter which URI you
use. Note: IJ has removed the paragraph in the 8 June draft.
[19] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2004/webarch-20040608/
Actions:
1. DC to review section 2 of 8 June draft.
2. PC to review sections 1, 5, and 6 of 8 June draft.
3. CL to review section 4 of 8 June draft.
4. SW, NW to review entire 8 June draft.
Resources:
1. [20]Last Call issues list ([21]sorted by section)
2. [22]Annotated version of WebArch
3. Archive of [23]public-webarch-comments
4. [24]List of actions by TAG participant
[20] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2003/lc1209/issues.html
[21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2003/lc1209/concerning.html
[22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2003/lc1209/webarchWithIssues.html
[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webarch-comments/
[24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2003/lc1209/actions_owner.html
_________________________________________________________________
The TAG does not expect to discuss issues below this line.
3. Status report on these findings
See also [25]TAG findings
* [26]abstractComponentRefs-37:
+ 30 Oct 2003 draft finding "[27]Abstract Component References"
* [28]contentPresentation-26:
+ 30 June 2003 draft finding "[29]Separation of semantic and
presentational markup, to the extent possible, is
architecturally sound"
* [30]metadataInURI-31
* [31]siteData-36
+ "[32]There is no such thing as a Web site"
[25] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/findings
[26] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#abstractComponentRefs-37
[27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/abstractComponentRefs-20031030
[28] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/open-summary.html#contentPresentation-26
[29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/contentPresentation-26-20030630.html
[30] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/open-summary.html#metadataInURI-31
[31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#siteData-36
[32] http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2004/01/08/WebSite36
4. Other action items
* Action DC 2003/11/15: Follow up on KeepPOSTRecords with Janet Daly
on how to raise awareness of this point (which is in CUAP).
* Action CL 2003/10/27: Draft XML mime type thingy with Murata-san
_________________________________________________________________
Ian Jacobs for Stuart Williams and TimBL
Last modified: $Date: 2004/06/17 12:27:19 $
--
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org) http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Tel: +1 718 260-9447
Received on Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:53:52 UTC