[Minutes] 21 October 2002 TAG teleconference

Hello,

Minutes available at HTML [1] and available as
text below.

  - Ian

[1] http://www.w3.org/2002/10/21-tag-summary

-- 
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Tel:                     +1 718 260-9447

==========================================================

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         Minutes of 21 October 2002 TAG teleconference

    Nearby: IRC log | Teleconference details ? issues
    list ? www-tag archive

1. Administrative

   1. Roll call: SW (Chair), DC, TB, DO, PC, NW, IJ
        (Scribe). Regrets: TBL, CL. Absent: RF.
   2. Accepted 7 Oct teleconference minutes
   3. Accepted this agenda
   4. Next meeting: 28 October. Possible regrets from PC.

   1.2 Completed actions

     1. Action RF 2002/09/25: On the topic of revising
        RFC2396, indicate to the TAG what the relevant
        IETF fora are for input. Done: uri@w3org is the
        forum. RF will send information there.
     2. Action DC 2002/08/12: Ask www-tag for volunteers
        to work with TAG (and possibly IETF) on HTTP URI
        stuff; CRISP. [This action supersedes the
        previous action: Ask IESG when IETF decided not
        to use HTTP URIs to name protocols.] Sent. Mark
        Baker and DC have a draft.

   1.3 AC meeting planning

     1. TAG presentation at AC meeting.
          1. Action IJ: Request different time slot to
             improve proximity to TAG ftf meeting.
          2. TAG expects to discuss the following topics
             (presenter indicated):
               1. XLink: SW
               2. Arch Document: TB (or DC if TB cannot).
                  As part of this report, talk about IETF
                  liaison regarding URIs.
               3. GET7/SOAP story: DO.
          3. Action SW, TB, DO: Send slides for AC
             discussion to TAG for review by 11 November.
             Review to take place primarily by email.
          4. TAG does not expect to give an oral update;
             will be done in the form of a written
             summary. Action IJ: Draft written summary of
             TAG activity in last six months for AC. The
             report will include an assessment of TAG's
             work, process, as discussed at TAG ftf
             meeting. The report will also include
             observations on process issues raised by AC
             on original TAG charter. Action IJ and PC:
             Include information from IJ's summary of
             process issues (TAG-only) from AB regarding
             TAG charter. Also, clarify meaning of
             "short-term resolutions" in charter.

2. Technical

      * 2.1 Findings, arch doc
      * 2.2 xlinkScope-23
      * 2.3 Other technical issues and actions
      * 2.4 New issues
      * 2.5 Postponed

   2.1 Findings, Architecture Document

     1. Findings in progress:
          1. deepLinking-25
               1. TB 2002/09/09: Revise "Deep Linking" in
                  light of 9 Sep minutes. Status of
                  finding?
                  TB: Pending; I still have to
                  incorporate comments from people.
     2. Findings versioning
          1. SW 2002/09/09: Discuss with IJ versioning of
             findings. Pending. SW and IJ have discussed
             latest accepted v. latest draft; need to
             draft written proposal for TAG.
     3. Architecture document
          1. Finish discussion of feedback on arch
             document. Action IJ: Summarize remaining
             review comments:
               1. Summary of comments
               2. Comments from Graham Klyne
               3. Comments from Daniel Dardailler
             Action IJ 2002/10/17 (from Chair): Summarize
             these comments for the TAG.
          2. Action RF 2002/09/25: Propose a rewrite of a
             principle (rationale -> principle ->
             constraint) to see whether the TAG prefers
             this approach. It was suggested that the
             example be about HTTP/REST, as part of
             section 4.
          3. Action TBL 2002/09/25: Propose text on
             information hiding. (From 24-25 Sep TAG ftf:
             "The principle of information-hiding is
             contrary to global identifiers....Shall we
             put in the document something about
             information hiding/independent design of
             orthogonal specs? You should should not be
             able to write an xpath to peek into http
             headers....")
          4. Action CL 2002/09/25: Redraft section 3,
             incorporating CL's existing text and TB's
             structural proposal (see minutes of 25 Sep
             ftf meeting on formats).
          5. Action NW 2002/09/25: Write some text for a
             section on namespaces (docs at namespace
             URIs, use of RDDL-like thing).

   2.2 xlinkScope-23

    [Ian]
           TB, PC: Please wait until we comment on this
           before linking to it.

           DC: HTML WG has no obligation to participate
           on www-tag. We can certainly invite them to
           participate as a WG. Our original email went
           to the HTML WG; we are awaiting a reply from
           the HTML WG. SW can talk to the Chair and ask
           for a reply; or continued discussion on
           www-tag.

           PC: I think we need to ask whether we still
           hold the same opinion having seen the input. I
           expect this to be back on our agenda. I don't
           disagree with DC - getting more consolidated
           input on different perspectives would be
           useful.
           TB: I'm not sure what the appropriate path
           forward is, process-wise.
           [TAG notes that relevant threads have slowed
           down here and on xml-dev.]

    [DanCon]
           thanks, Tim Bray, for reading all this email.

    [Ian]
           TB: I think most of the substantive talk on
           xml-dev was also sent to www-tag (prompted by
           TB).
           PC: The summary should include some of what we
           discussed at the FTF meeting. Otherwise, the
           summary is disconnected.
           DC: E.g., my reasons for using XLink are not
           in SW's summary.: PC's document ("why we
           decided what we did, who (dis)agrees and why")
           is interesting.
           TB: I did this:
           http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/20
           02Oct/0075.html
           TB: I think that some of the rationale is in
           that email.
           [DC notes that this is cited from SW's
           summary.]
           PC: I think we can engage in more useful
           discussion and debate by demonstrating where
           agreement/differences are.

    [DanCon]
           My position at the ftf meeting was mostly:
           let's share technology where we can; one
           linking technology is likely better than 2,
           unless the 1 is 1000% worse than either of the
           2.

    [Ian]
           DC: I agree that PC's document would be handy.
           [Support for SW adding more on TAG rationale
           to summary.]
           IJ: These are called "findings."
           DC: An interesting place to start this summary
           is when this was raised in the TAG. It would
           have been an abuse of process to squash the
           HLink WD. I'd like this to go back to the
           genesis of the issue; reported journalistic
           style. This started because the Director
           observed a disconnect; this was not at the
           request of the WGs involved.
           TB: SW tried to cite the arguments and to
           summarize them. That's tricky, but if done
           well, that's a service to the community.
           Perhaps we could revise the summary along
           these lines:

          1. We were asked to consider this.
          2. We said yes (reference).
          3. People disagreed (references, reasons).
          4. etc.

           TB: Perhaps point/counter-point can be
           dropped, and follow along historical lines.
           DC: I'm conflicted. This was a huge
           time-saver. I think the summary is interesting
           of the discussion (even if not connected to
           our decision). It would be a shame to lose
           what SW has done.
           TB: The imposition of point/counter-point
           approach might grate some. But I would be
           satisfied with SW approach and more connection
           to our decision.
           SW: I will gladly take input on mailing list
           for the next couple of days.
           DC: If SW and any other TAG participant say ok
           to go public, ok by me.
           [Support for DC's suggestion from TB and NW.]

    Action SW 2002/10/21: Starting from email from SW to
    TAG, develop a summary of technical discussion and
    send to www-tag. Include more rationale for original
    TAG email to HTML WG.

   2.3 Other technical issues and actions

     1. namespaceDocument-8
          1. Action TB 2002/09/24: Revise the RDDL
             document to use RDF rather than XLink. Goal
             of publication as W3C Note.
             TB: This turns out to be harder than I
             thought. I am still working on this.
     2. rdfmsQnameUriMapping-6
          1. Completed Action DC 2002/09/24: Write to
             Schema WG to say that TAG is interested in
             progress on this issue. Copy Jonathan Borden
             and Brian McBride.
             DC: The Schema WG is making progress; they
             will get back to us when they're done. See
             XML Schema thread on this topic.
     3. uriMediaType-9:
           + Action DC 2002/08/30: Write a draft Internet
             Draft based on this finding (Deadline 30
             Sep). This action probably subsumes the
             action on TBL to get a reply from the IETF
             on the TAG finding.
             DC: There is an Internet draft on this, but
             I need to revise some of my language. My
             guess is that it will take me another month
             or so. I do think that this is the right
             direction. I have noted input from Larry
             Masinter.
             DO: I've been having discussions with Donald
             Eastlake; he plans to revise his draft.

   2.4 New issues?

      * Use of frags in SVG v. in XML
           + Action DC 2002/09/26: Describe this issue in
             more detail for the TAG
      * Potential TAG issue in re consistency, Schema,
        etc from Tim Bray.
        DC: TB's mail convinced me that we have an issue.
        NW: I'm also willing to support this as an issue.
        Action TB: Reformulate issue for next week's
        meeting; we will decide then whether to add to
        the issues list.

   2.5 Postponed

     1. contentPresentation-26
          1. Action CL 2002/09/24: Draft text on the
             principle of separation of content and
             presentation for the Arch Doc.
     2. Status of URIEquivalence-15. Relation to
        Character Model of the Web (chapter 4)? See text
        from TimBL on URI canonicalization and email from
        Martin in particular. See more comments from
        Martin.
          1. CL 2002/08/30: Ask Martin Duerst for
             suggestions for good practice regarding URI
             canonicalization issues, such as %7E v. &7e
             and suggested use of lower case. At 16 Sep
             meeting, CL reports pending; action to send
             URI to message to TAG.
          2. IRIs everywhere (including XML namespaces)
             from Jonathan Marsh. Is this part of this
             issue or a new issue?
     3. Status of discussions with WSA WG about
        SOAP/WSDL/GET/Query strings?
           + DO 2002/06/24: Contact WSDL WG about this
             issue (bindings, query strings and schemas)
             to ensure that it's on their radar. See
             discussions from 9 Sep TAG teleconf.
      ________________________________________________


     Ian Jacobs, for TimBL
     Last modified: $Date: 2002/10/21 22:20:41 $

Received on Monday, 21 October 2002 18:31:26 UTC