- From: Erik Dahlström <ed@opera.com>
- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:23:24 +0200
- To: "www-svg@w3.org" <www-svg@w3.org>
Minutes in html format:
http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html
and as plaintext:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
16 Apr 2015
[2]Agenda
[2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Apr/0010.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Doug_Schepers, [IPcaller], ed, AmeliaBR, stakagi,
Thomas_Smailus, birtles, [Microsoft], Tav
Regrets
Chair
ed
Scribe
ed
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]stroke-dasharray="0"
2. [6]meeting at TPAC?
3. [7]SVG 2 open issue discussion
4. [8]chapter 19, extensibility
5. [9]animations chapter
6. [10]deprecating xlink:href
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 16 April 2015
<smailus> afk for bio break
<scribe> scribeNick: ed
stroke-dasharray="0"
[12]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Apr/0001.h
tml
[12] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Apr/0001.html
ABR: there was a inconsistency between firefox and the other
browsers when you had stroke-dasharray=0
... comes down to some unclear prose
... spec said should be treated as a value of none was
specified, but it was unclear where that meant for the stroke
or for stroke-dasharray
... <reads proposed text>
... so still draw the stroke, but don't dash it
... Robert Longson was happy with the proposed wording
... so, can we resolve on doing that clarification?
All: yes
<scribe> ACTION: AmeliaBR to clarify the wording around
stroke-dasharray=0 to say that that means draw the stroke but
don't dash it [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3777 - Clarify the wording around
stroke-dasharray=0 to say that that means draw the stroke but
don't dash it [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2015-04-23].
meeting at TPAC?
DS: it's in Sapporo, Japan
... we need to let the planners know if SVGWG is meeting, by
apr 30
... and we don't want to meet with days overlapping with CSS
... who here will attend?
Rossen: we're going to have somebody there, probably me and
maybe bogdan
... will attend CSS too
ED: will go if SVG is meeting
DS: will go
BB: I expect I'll go
<TabAtkins> I'm attending.
<stakagi> will go
Tav: I'll probably not go, too expensive for two days
TPAC is 26-30 Oct 2015
DS: does anyone think we shouldn't meet at tpac?
<silence>
DS: thu-fri is typically when svg meets
... might be a bit crowded, but no problem
... assuming people in the group will attend CSS too, so we
shouldn't have overlap
Rossen: maybe FXTF too?
DS: will we have one?
Rossen: sure, if there are things to discuss
... assuming it'll happen on wednesday
... or perhaps take some time from the css or svg meeting
<scribe> ACTION: ed to respond to the TPAC organizers saying
SVG will meet at TPAC 2015 [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3778 - Respond to the tpac organizers
saying svg will meet at tpac 2015 [on Erik Dahlström - due
2015-04-23].
SVG 2 open issue discussion
[15]https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assess
ment
[15] https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment
Rossen: orthogonal question, some chapter are assigned to Dirk,
anyone know if he's still active in the group, and if he's
going to work on the things he's assigned?
... if not, we should divvy up the chapters on other ppl
DS: he hasn't been on the calls recently
AmeliaBR: he's been active on the list
Rossen: ok, moving on to the issues then
chapter 19, extensibility
<Rossen>
[16]https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assess
ment#Extensibility_.28Rossen.29
[16]
https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment#Extensibility_.28Rossen.29
<AmeliaBR> [17]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/extend.html#issue2
[17] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/extend.html#issue2
AmeliaBR: issue 2 and 3, it's not specific to foreignObject
... going to come up all over the svg dom
... what to do with the attributes we turned into presentation
attributes, has to be done consistently across the board
Rossen: sounds good
... I believe the issues were raised in the wrong part of the
spec
... not specific to FO itself
... I woudln't expect anythign special here
BB: the only thing that might be different
... maybe because it's not used so much we could make them
domstrings
AmeliaBR: I'd advise caution there
... ppl also expect things to work the same way
BB: ppl probably don't use animVal for width and height on a FO
Rossen: but what makes FO special here?
BB: if the APIs aren't used (much) it'd be nicer to be able to
simplify things
ED: I'm fine with moving this to whatever chapter needs to deal
with this, I agree that the extensibility chapter shouldn't do
it alone
Rossen: fine with moving it to the proper chapter
DS: might be useful to raise an issue in ext chapter about
other ways to embed html
... we should raise such an issue here as a placeholder
AmeliaBR: iframe and foreignObject have similarities
DS: maybe those two chapters should simply be merged
AmeliaBR: there's a difference in linking vs embedding, but
merging might make sense
DS: I wouldn't look for FO in an extensibility chapter
Rossen: I can merge those chapters if that's what we want to do
... I see that in embedded content chapter, there are other
examples of x,y,width,height presentation attributes
<scribe> ACTION: Rossen to merge the embedded content and
extensibility chapters (removing the ext chapter) [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3779 - Merge the embedded content and
extensibility chapters (removing the ext chapter) [on Rossen
Atanassov - due 2015-04-23].
animations chapter
Rossen: three issues needing discussion
<Rossen> [19]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/animate.html#issue2
[19] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/animate.html#issue2
AmeliaBR: what is #xC?
Tav: it's form feed
AmeliaBR: consistency is good
ED: so, I did some changes to the types chapter to align what
is considered "whitespace" across svg, html and css
... it was previously referenced from here (I think)
... the types chapter is referencing css now, so automatically
is aligned with that
... I think the animations chapter should use the same
definition of whitespace
Rossen: ok, sounds good, point to css definition of whitespace
RESOLUTION: align what is considered whitespace in animations
chapter with CSS, by referencing css' definition of whitespace
<scribe> ACTION: Rossen to reference CSS' definition of
whitespace for the S production in the animations chapter
(issue 2) [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3780 - Reference css' definition of
whitespace for the s production in the animations chapter
(issue 2) [on Rossen Atanassov - due 2015-04-23].
<Rossen> [21]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/animate.html#issue8
[21] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/animate.html#issue8
Rossen: this is unclear to me
... should we reference the transform property, or what is this
about?
<TabAtkins> The CSS definition of whitespace is at
[22]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-syntax/#whitespace
[22] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-syntax/#whitespace
<TabAtkins> (Note that u+000c is processed out during
preprocessing, and so doesn't show up in the definition
explicitly. There's a note covering this.)
BB: not sure who added this, but maybe that you can use the
regular animate element to animate transform
AmeliaBR: I think the immidiate issue is to just change the
text, so that animateTransform refers to the transform style
property as well as the attribute
BB: I'm adressing this chapter top-to-bottom, so not sure we
need to talk about this yet
Rossen: the rest are mostly editorial
BB: I've been working on this chapter
<Rossen>
[23]https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assess
ment#Animation_.28Rossen.29
[23]
https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment#Animation_.28Rossen.29
Rossen: the reason why the animation chapter had my name next
to it, happy to give it back to you brian
... so for issue 8, add the reference to transform property and
then deprecate?
<Rossen> [24]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/animate.html#issue8
[24] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/animate.html#issue8
BB: just needs to be updated to talk about the transform
property
<Rossen>
[25]https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assess
ment#Animation_.28Brian.29
[25]
https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment#Animation_.28Brian.29
Rossen: ok, I did reflect this in the chapter assessment, and
assigned Brian the animation chapter
deprecating xlink:href
BB: there are three questions I have around this
... first, animated interfaces
... since we're not going ahead with heycam's new dom
... if that's the case, then the href IDL attributes point to
an SVGAnimatedString
... and if they're not used much
... to replace them with plain domstring
ED: I landed a patch in blink today for measuring the usage of
href.baseVal and href.animVal, we'll have to wait a bit for the
results
<AmeliaBR> Q: What interface makes xlink:href available as an
animated string?
BB: For <image>, <script> we resolved to add the src attribute.
Does setting the href IDL attribute update src?
the xlink:href interface is called SVGURIReference
<birtles>
[26]https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#InterfaceSVGURIRefe
rence
[26] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#InterfaceSVGURIReference
BB: i updated the definitions there
... not sure if you have animations
... maybe you should always update href if animating
<birtles> i.e. even if it explicitly animates
attributeName="xlink:href" should it just animate "href"
anyway?
AmeliaBR: what is the current language for href? which takes
preference if both src and href specified?
Rossen: document order?
BB: what do you mean?
Rossen: last one overrides
AmeliaBR: but attributes aren't ordered
... parsers don't keep track of the order the attributes are in
DS: ok, rossen you're right to have a single attr do the same
thing
... but the situation is that svg got it wrong, svg was defined
in -99, so svg went with consistency with something that didn't
take off
... my opinion: make href an alias for src, and if both present
src takes precedence
... both map to src
... we ran into similar problem, barename href vs
xlink:href.... we decided it should default to href
... in this case we're saying href should default to src
Rossen: any precedent in html?
DS: don't think so
Rossen: other question: if we say src is the primary one and
the href is secondary, how do you deal with invalid values and
fallback
DS: src should be authoriative
Rossen: but we're talkign about tools that sometimes screw up
content
BB: barename href vs xlink:href, we should ignore xlink:href if
we see a barename href
AmeliaBR: sounds good
<TabAtkins> I say no fallback. If src is present, it's used,
regardless of whether it's "wrong" or whatever.
AmeliaBR: not sure what the original resolution was
<TabAtkins> Yeah, what BB said.
AmeliaBR: if we're making <image> to use src that will trigger
behaviours in older browsers
... will be handled as html:img
<birtles>
[27]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/19-svg-minutes.html#item05
[27] http://www.w3.org/2012/09/19-svg-minutes.html#item05
BB: pasted link to the last discussion we had about this
AmeliaBR: I think we shouldn't ruin the src fallback "hack"
<TabAtkins> We're talking *very* old browsers that don't
understand <svg> at all. It's not a big deal.
AmeliaBR: if we gave src a meaning in svg it'll break the html
fallback
DS: content validation might help a bit
<AmeliaBR> TabAtkins: 5-6% of web site visits in the US are on
IE8- or Android 2.3-
<TabAtkins> Let's encourage them to upgrade. ^_^
<TabAtkins> (IE team has openly encouraged devs to stop
developing for IE8.)
AmeliaBR: for script it's sort of the same between html and svg
... the problem is with image
DS: right, we should do the change (using src) for script but
not for image
ED: out of time, let's continue the discussion on the
mailinglist (or in another call)
trackbot, end telcon
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: AmeliaBR to clarify the wording around
stroke-dasharray=0 to say that that means draw the stroke but
don't dash it [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to respond to the TPAC organizers saying SVG
will meet at TPAC 2015 [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Rossen to merge the embedded content and
extensibility chapters (removing the ext chapter) [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Rossen to reference CSS' definition of whitespace
for the S production in the animations chapter (issue 2)
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [32]scribe.perl version
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$Date: 2015/04/16 21:41:13 $
__________________________________________________________
[32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[33] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30
Check for newer version at [34]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
scribe/
[34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/similarites/similarities/
Found ScribeNick: ed
Inferring Scribes: ed
Default Present: Doug_Schepers, [IPcaller], ed, AmeliaBR, stakagi, Thoma
s_Smailus, birtles, [Microsoft], Tav
Present: Doug_Schepers [IPcaller] ed AmeliaBR stakagi Thomas_Smailus bir
tles [Microsoft] Tav
Agenda: [35]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Apr/0010.ht
ml
[35] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Apr/0010.html
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 16 Apr 2015
Guessing minutes URL: [36]http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: ameliabr ed rossen
[36] http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-svg-minutes.html
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--
Erik Dahlstrom, Web Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Received on Friday, 17 April 2015 07:24:04 UTC