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Re: Minutes: May 8, 2014 SVG Working group meeting

From: Erik Dahlström <ed@opera.com>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 09:50:23 +0200
To: www-svg@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.xfqld9c1dhsuf5@gnorps>
Adding the text log for the tracker bot...

>
> http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html
>

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                     SVG Working Group Teleconference

08 May 2014

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0003.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           cabanier, [IPcaller], Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ed, krit,
           stakagi, nikos

    Regrets
    Chair
           ed

    Scribe
           Rich

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]SVG2 User Agent Implementation Guide
          2. [6]should we remove tref from SVG2?
          3. [7]Deprecate pixelUnitToMillimeterX,
             pixelUnitToMillimeterY,
          4. [8]Should we use unrestricted double for SVGLength,
             SVGNumber, SVGAngle and
          5. [9]All presentation attributes (even the new
             presentation attributes like
          6. [10]Event attributes on graphics and container
             elements why not SVGElement
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 08 May 2014

    <stakagi> zakim ??P3 is me

    <scribe> scribe: Rich

SVG2 User Agent Implementation Guide

    <ed> scribeNick: richardschwerdtfeger

    Core Accessibility API Mappings

    SVG2 Accessibility API Mappings

    HTML5 Accessibility API Mappings

    <ed> richardschwerdtfeger: does anyone have concerns with the
    names of the specifications?

    <ed> (none heard)

    <scribe> scribe: Rich

    <ed>
    [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Jun/0071.ht
    ml

      [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Jun/0071.html

should we remove tref from SVG2?

    erik: It is not implemented in Firefox. There is not much use
    in blink. People are looking to remove it if possible.

    Rich: Is it implemented in IE?

    nikos: Not implemented in IE11

    erik: You can use the <use> element instead so not much loss of
    functionality

    nikos: if <use> satisifes those then we will be ok

    ed: tref can be used inside a text element. but use you would
    use outside but you can mostly do the same thing

    <nikos>
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Jun/0075.ht
    ml

      [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Jun/0075.html

    nikos: There was some comment about it breaking air traffic
    control software
    ... it was a little bit vague
    ... If it is not really implemented in browsers anyway …

    ed: there were a lot of quirks with it so I would like to
    remove it. It makes things more complicated for implementation
    ... If you have script you can do anything with it but there is
    not always the opportunity to use script
    ... I propose that we try to drop it with the next publication
    of the spec.
    ... hearing no objections

    RESOLUTION: Remove TREF from the SVG 2 spec.

Deprecate pixelUnitToMillimeterX, pixelUnitToMillimeterY,

    screenPixelToMillimeterX, screenPixelToMillimeterY in SVG2

    krit: Do we want to continue having these functions that simply
    return constants? They are really not needed any more.
    ... can we at least deprecate them?

    ed: So, these contants are easy to get from other APIs or this
    is basically what the web does more or less
    ... Can we get these values from CSS?

    krit: No, I don’t think so

    ed: I have not seen these used so I am not that concerned. I
    think we should deprecate them.
    ... hearing no objections to deprecate them.

    <scribe> ACTION: Dirk deprecate Deprecate
    pixelUnitToMillimeterX, pixelUnitToMillimeterY,
    screenPixelToMillimeterX, screenPixelToMillimeterY in the spec.
    [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3623 - Deprecate deprecate
    pixelunittomillimeterx, pixelunittomillimetery,
    screenpixeltomillimeterx, screenpixeltomillimetery in the spec.
    [on Dirk Schulze - due 2014-05-15].

Should we use unrestricted double for SVGLength, SVGNumber, SVGAngle
and

    all attributes?

    krit: You can pass none.
    ... should we restict the API or should we make it
    unrestricted?
    ... they will all have unrstricted doubles
    ... It just makes sense to make it unrestricted.

    ed: ok let’s postpone the discussion until heycam is present

All presentation attributes (even the new presentation attributes
like

    width and height) should allow global CSS keywords like inherit
    and

    initial.

    krit: I think we should not add new cases and we should follow
    CSS as much as possible.

    ed: this does post some consistency issues
    ... … svglength for example. So, that is the reason for not
    allowing it for the elements that are presentation attributes

    nikos: the object models would produce computed styles. This is
    something we decided 2 years ago.

    <ed> <g transform="inherit"> ... and then
    gElm.baseVal.transform.getItem(0), what does it return?

    ed: the base values would be computed?

    nikos: you would get the computed styles
    ... we should move to the CSS object model where possible

    ed: you could use the get attributes if you wanted to get
    whatever was written
    ... that makes sense
    ... that would mean that I would go change the spec.

    nikos: you would not disallow the new units from CSS
    ... you are are nto restricting it to the character message
    length

    <scribe> ACTION: ed modify the sentence in the spec. to allow
    the globall css keywords like inherit and initial [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3624 - Modify the sentence in the
    spec. to allow the globall css keywords like inherit and
    initial [on Erik Dahlström - due 2014-05-15].

Event attributes on graphics and container elements why not
SVGElement

    in general, just like HTMLElement does?

    nikos: It would make sense to make it for SVG elements in
    general
    ... script elements, style elements, etc.

    ed: the scripting chapter in the spec.?
    ... it is out of date and should be updated.
    ... these are more or less the standard events

    nikos: we just map all event attributes to svg elements as
    well.

    ed: should be fine.

    <scribe> ACTION: ed Event attributes on graphics and container
    elements added to SVGElement just like HTMLElement does
    [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3625 - Event attributes on graphics
    and container elements added to svgelement just like
    htmlelement does [on Erik Dahlström - due 2014-05-15].

    ed: the next call is May 22

    nikos: I may not be available as well

    krit: my regrets

    ed: meeting adjouned

    <nikos> wonder if I got that in in time ;)

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Dirk deprecate Deprecate pixelUnitToMillimeterX,
    pixelUnitToMillimeterY, screenPixelToMillimeterX,
    screenPixelToMillimeterY in the spec. [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed Event attributes on graphics and container
    elements added to SVGElement just like HTMLElement does
    [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed modify the sentence in the spec. to allow the
    globall css keywords like inherit and initial [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [20]scribe.perl version
     1.138 ([21]CVS log)
     $Date: 2014-05-08 13:33:47 $
      __________________________________________________________

      [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

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Found Scribe: Rich
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Default Present: cabanier, [IPcaller], Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ed, krit, sta
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Present: cabanier [IPcaller] Rich_Schwerdtfeger ed krit stakagi nikos
Agenda: [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0003.htm
l
Found Date: 08 May 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [24]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: dirk ed

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2014May/0003.html
      [24] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/08-svg-minutes.html

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-- 
Erik Dahlstrom, Web Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Received on Monday, 12 May 2014 07:51:11 UTC

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