Re: [css-compositing]new Editor's draft posted

Hi David,

They are useful in that we should try our best to come up with features
that will work intuitively and are interoperable.

In order to make blending interoperable, browsers will have to agree on how
the page is drawn for the near future. My fear is that they will be
unwilling to make this commitment. If that is the case, rather than
inventing complicated markup to work around this (like SVG filters need),
we should postpone the feature and improve the graphics engines so they can
support intuitive drawing like you find in Adobe's applications.

Rik

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:08 AM, David Dailey <ddailey@zoominternet.net>wrote:

> Hi Rik,****
>
> ** **
>
> I don’t know if any of these experiments would be useful or not, but last
> summer I did quite a bit of work with various blending and compositing
> schemes across browsers. It was utterly astonishing (dare I say dreadful
> after all these years?) how little agreement browsers had about how to
> combine colors using filters. Consistent with a decade’s experiments, Opera
> and ASV generally behave as an author might hope, regardless of the spec’s
> inscrutability. ****
>
> ** **
>
> See for example ****
>
> http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/canterbury/Browsers.html****
>
> ** **
>
> Look, for example, at  http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/V9.svg to see an
> example of how poorly browsers agree on basic Venn diagrams to illustrate
> subtractive and additive color model, as shown in your compositing draft.
> Chrome behaves rather humorously here, and Firefox just refuses to try. **
> **
>
> ** **
>
> A few hundred experiments can be accessed from the umbrella at
> http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/canterbury/index.htm . This was for a paper
> prepared not as an SVG advocate, but as a mathematician trying to
> accomplish practical things in the area of data visualization. SVG was
> found to be rather wanting in utility  The academic context can be seen at
> http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-854/paper6.pdf . Folks with an interest in the
> basic psychophysics of data visualization may take an interest. ****
>
> ** **
>
> You can also see, in many of these examples, just how much work
> (oftentimes hideously complicated) an author most do in order to bring
> about a desired effect. I am optimistic that the new SVG will be able to
> fix some of these things and convince, once and for all, the implementers
> to read the text in the same way (that will hopefully have some resemblance
> to what people might want, actually, to do).****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers****
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Rik Cabanier [mailto:cabanier@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, May 20, 2013 11:42 PM
> *To:* www-svg
> *Subject:* Fwd: [css-compositing]new Editor's draft posted****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Rik Cabanier* <cabanier@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [css-compositing]new Editor's draft posted
> To: public-fx@w3.org, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
>
>
> In preparation of the Tokyo face-to-face, I made the compositing spec [1]
> ready for the next working draft.****
>
> I added several examples and did general cleanup. ****
>
> ** **
>
> During the joint FX day, I would like to discuss the issue of how we can
> determine what the backdrop of an element with blending is. ****
>
> Specifically:****
>
> - what CSS constructs create groups that limit the backdrop****
>
> - how can we specify this and in what spec should we do this****
>
> - how can we ensure that this can be implement in a interoperable way.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> 1: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/rawfile/default/compositing/index.html****
>
> ** **
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com> wrote:*
> ***
>
> All,****
>
> ** **
>
> a new version of the compositing and blending spec was posted here:****
>
> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/rawfile/default/compositing/index.html****
>
> ** **
>
> I removed the following features that were not going to make it in level 1:
> ****
>
> - compositing on CSS element****
>
> - compositing on backgrounds in CSS****
>
> - shorthand that combines blending and compositing****
>
> - knock-out****
>
> They will be moved to the next version of the specification.****
>
> ** **
>
> The biggest open issue in the spec is defining how 'grouping' is defined
> so we can get inter-operable behavior across browser engines. [1]****
>
> We're currently working on a test matrix that explores browser differences
> in this area.****
>
> ** **
>
> Please review if you have time and let me know if you have any concerns.**
> **
>
> I would like to publish this as a new Working Draft.****
>
> ** **
>
> 1:
> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/rawfile/default/compositing/index.html#csscompositingrules_CSS
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>