- From: Nikos Andronikos <nikos.andronikos@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:57:25 +1100
- To: <www-svg@w3.org>
Hi all,
Minutes from today's telcon are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html
And below as text.
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
21 Mar 2013
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0074.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
+1.425.373.aaaa, Krit, [IPcaller], ed, +61.2.980.5.aabb,
nikos, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ChrisL
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
nikos
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]SVG 2 status
2. [6]Referencing the HTML spec
3. [7]SVG font-face-src required in the schema but
optional in the spec
4. [8]Matrix specification editorship
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 21 March 2013
<ChrisL> yay, a new telcon time that isn't 11pm
<scribe> scribenick: nikos
SVG 2 status
<ChrisL> status - SVG2 full of broken links
<ed>
[10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMa
r/0073.html
[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0073.html
ed: There are some problems with broken links
... I took a look at filters, it seems we are referencing the
ED of the compositing spec
... Some of the specs we are referencing are quite old. Will we
be publishing new versions of them any time soon?
krit: for Filter Effects I'm waiting on feedback on the
security model
... For compositing we have problems with stacking contexts to
resolve
ChrisL: I'd like to see new versions for specs that have
changed. It's ok to point to the old version if there haven't
been any changes
krit: I'd like to wait 2-3 weeks for Filter Effects. I'd like
feedback from Robert O'Callaghan
nikos: We should check with Rik for Compositing and Blending
ed: For the masking links, I think we need to go through
definitions.xml and remove things that are moved to the new
spec
... and setup something like definitions-filters.xml for
anything filter related
... we should do likewise for compositing and masks
krit: Do you mean we port these files from the other specs to
SVG 2?
ChrisL: The xml just defines the links
ed: We can specify the base URL easily in the publish.xml file
definition
<ChrisL> so one edit updates all the links that are generated
krit: I've updated the file in the filter effects repository,
How do I bring that across to SVG 2?
ed: we need to make sure the definitions file is correct for
the last published working draft, as links will change
... we should point to a particular WD
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to fix the definition XML file for filter
effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
[recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3476 - Fix the definition XML file
for filter effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published
version. [on Erik Dahlström - due 2013-03-28].
<scribe> ACTION: Dirk to fix the definition XML file for
masking in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
[recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3477 - Fix the definition XML file
for masking in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
[on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-03-28].
<scribe> ACTION: Nikos to fix the definition XML file for
compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific
published version. [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3478 - Fix the definition XML file
for compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific
published version. [on Nikos Andronikos - due 2013-03-28].
ed: So Chris, you'll do the publication when everything is
fixed?
ChrisL: yes, I may need to get someone else to build if my
system isn't ready
Referencing the HTML spec
<richardschwerdtfeger>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMa
r/0055.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0055.html
richardschwerdtfeger: We started looking at this list and got
up to item 5
... looking at focus navigation in SVG. I'm trying to follow
the same navigation sequencing that is in HTML 5
... they refer to how to parse the browsing context
... in terms of the definition of the browsing context. Does
anyone have reservations on me referencing the HTML 5 spec ?
<richardschwerdtfeger>
[15]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#wind
ows
[15] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#windows
krit: don't you already reference HTML 5?
richardschwerdtfeger: not for browsing context
<richardschwerdtfeger>
[16]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#seque
ntial-focus-navigation-and-the-tabindex-attribute
[16] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#sequential-focus-navigation-and-the-tabindex-attribute
richardschwerdtfeger: so for consistency, I just refer to that
definition
krit: do we define a window proxy object in SVG?
richardschwerdtfeger: not sure, I don't think so
... we probably will have to
krit: each browsing context requires one
richardschwerdtfeger: do we have a window object in SVG?
krit: yes
richardschwerdtfeger: might not be an issue then
... that makes sense
krit: is window defined in HTML?
richardschwerdtfeger: yes
<richardschwerdtfeger>
[17]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#wind
ow
[17] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#window
krit: SVG has a window object too?
ed: yes
richardschwerdtfeger: I don't know that we have all the same
methods
krit: we don't have scrolling
<ed>
[18]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#dom__Window
[18] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#dom__Window
krit: I think it's fine
ed: I'm not sure that SVG 1.1 has a window definition but SVG
1.2 does
ChrisL: SVG 1.2 tiny was the first W3C to define a window
object, but it's probably quite old and HTML5's is more up to
date
richardschwerdtfeger: moving on to 6 then
... we need focus and hasFocus from HTMLElement
... should we request HTML move them up to the Element object?
... what do you guys prefer we do here?
krit: might be easier to just put it on SVGElement as well
richardschwerdtfeger: Number 7
... tabIndex is a global attribute in HTML so can apply to any
element e.g. the title element
<ChrisL> title {display: block; position: fixed }
ChrisL: it's easy in HTML to say that things in head don't get
rendered
... but we have a bunch of stuff that doesn't render by itself
e.g. gradients
richardschwerdtfeger: my recommendation is that we apply it to
all elements but we stipulate that an element is focusable if
the UAs default behaviour is to allow it focusable or it has
tabindex
... should we list the elements that don't apply?
krit: what about references via use?
ed: could be tricky, do you get one per use or one per
definition?
ChrisL: it's assuming one element produces one rendering and
that's not the case here
... we've covered the case with zero renderings, but not
multiple
... it's the instances that can be focused
richardschwerdtfeger: so we need to modify the definition?
ChrisL: I think so
... I would need to think about it and take a look at what you
have already. Can we do it via email?
... it probably needs to be made to apply to HTML as well
richardschwerdtfeger: so the general definition is ok, but we
need to deal with multiple instances
... Number 8
... part of what is needed for sequential flow navigation is to
deal with browsing contexts
... it doesn't sound like people don't disagree that we would
refer to the definitions?
... I'm trying not to redefine things if possible
ed: Haven't heard any disagreement so I think it's fine
richardschwerdtfeger: we have some inconsistencies in naming
like blur and focus out
... This is number 9
... do people have thoughts on mapping between the two?
... browsers handle it but I'd like to hear your thoughts
ChrisL: When it was first proposed it was called blur and then
it changed and then changed back
... I vaguely remember firing multiple events, but that's hacky
... how do the HTML browsers handle it? are they consistent?
richardschwerdtfeger: multiple events I think
ed: yes that's correct
... since SVG 1.1 didn't have blur and focus I don't think the
browsers have them in an SVG context
krit: my experience is that inline SVG does
richardschwerdtfeger: for backward compatibility we will need
focusout
... do we say you only register one handler?
... or do we say blur and focusout are equivalent?
... or do we tell browsers to generate both events?
ed: the question is how backward compatibility it would need to
be as I don't think browsers implement this in SVG
... there may not be much content using it
richardschwerdtfeger: the only SVG 1.1 elementthat it might
apply to currently is anchor?
ed: animation and editable text in Tiny 1.2 as well
richardschwerdtfeger: so it sounds like we will have a backward
compatibility issue if we don't have both events
ed: I don't think it would be a big deal but it might make
sense to investigate
... there is probably some content, but not much
richardschwerdtfeger: we will use the HTML names vs the exiting
SVG names. So will use blur rather than focusout in the SVG 2
spec
ed: might be safer to deprecate
richardschwerdtfeger: ok we will deprecate the old names and
adopt the HTML 5 naming conventions
... Number 10
... do we change the document or do we do something specific in
SVG?
... do we want our own version of document or have the HTML 5
document object change?
ed: there are only a few things we have on the SVG document
that are in conflict with the HTML 5 document
... I think the HTML 5 spec documents them
... I think for the most part, they are more or less the same.
SVG document is a subset
... the only thing the SVG document adds is the root element
richardschwerdtfeger: the HTML one has a lot of stuff we
wouldn't implement
ed: do you want to import from the HTML document?
richardschwerdtfeger: we need active element, we asked Anna if
he would put it in DOM 4 (we reference DOM 4). He said no, he'd
rather we adopt the HTML 5 document interface
<richardschwerdtfeger>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMa
r/0072.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0072.html
richardschwerdtfeger: last time we discussed it, there was some
reluctance to do that
... this carries over into the next agenda item
ed: Dirk you thing it should be on the document interface?
krit1: it feels more natural
... we inherit from HTML document in webkit
ed: I don't have a strong opinion where it goes as long as it's
there
richardschwerdtfeger: if we have the two together we'd use the
HTML document, if you have standalone SVG what do you do?
... not support some functions? or have a subset?
... Anna's argument was that script developers want access to
the entire set of APIs
... but in a standalone environment I'm not sure what to do
with that
... Dirk you wanted to preserve the XML document object?
krit1: yes
... I have a strong opinion on that, I'm not sure Mozilla would
let SVG document inherit from HTML document
... they want it on the DOM as well
richardschwerdtfeger: I will ask Boris
... we can discuss next week if needed
SVG font-face-src required in the schema but optional in the spec
<ed>
[20]http://www.w3.org/mid/CALvn5ECR4cPCgayiKOzGH5U5VZWxCx-bk1Jd
LSMxSuHG=6nqiA@mail.gmail.com
[20] http://www.w3.org/mid/CALvn5ECR4cPCgayiKOzGH5U5VZWxCx-bk1JdLSMxSuHG=6nqiA@mail.gmail.com
ed: I was wondering what we want to do with this
... Chris replied and said the DTD is incorrect
... I would agree
ChrisL: I'll take an action to do the errata
... and tell IPDF
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to write errata for ‘font-face-src’
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3479 - Write errata for
‘font-face-src’ [on Chris Lilley - due 2013-03-28].
<richardschwerdtfeger> have to drop
Matrix specification editorship
krit1: Could Rik and I become co-editor of this?
ed: no objections? That's fine then
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to write errata for ‘font-face-src’
[recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Dirk to fix the definition XML file for masking
in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to fix the definition XML file for filter
effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version.
[recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Nikos to fix the definition XML file for
compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific
published version. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version
1.137 ([27]CVS log)
$Date: 2013-03-21 21:54:41 $
__________________________________________________________
[26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01
Check for newer version at [28]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
scribe/
[28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/definition/publish.xml file definition/
Succeeded: s/people disagree/people don't disagree/
Succeeded: s/only SVG element /only SVG 1.1 element/
Succeeded: s/element/document/
Succeeded: s/Rik/Rik and I/
Found ScribeNick: nikos
Inferring Scribes: nikos
Default Present: +1.425.373.aaaa, Krit, [IPcaller], ed, +61.2.980.5.aabb
, nikos, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ChrisL
Present: +1.425.373.aaaa Krit [IPcaller] ed +61.2.980.5.aabb nikos Rich_
Schwerdtfeger ChrisL
Agenda: [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar
/0074.html
[29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0074.html
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 21 Mar 2013
Guessing minutes URL: [30]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: chris dirk erik nikos
[30] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html
End of [31]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
[31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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