- From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 01:22:22 -0700
- To: Nikos Andronikos <nikos.andronikos@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Cc: www-svg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAGN7qDBByO8uuW9bv0sawiMFwwF7XrDojXVKi_w=KO91YZmfTQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Nikos Andronikos < nikos.andronikos@cisra.canon.com.au> wrote: > Hi all, > Minutes from today's telcon > > http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-**svg-minutes.html,text<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html,text> > > and as text: > > [1]W3C > > [1] http://www.w3.org/ > > - DRAFT - > > SVG Working Group Teleconference > > 25 Oct 2012 > > [2]Agenda > > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/**Public/public-svg-wg/** > 2012OctDec/0016.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012OctDec/0016.html> > > See also: [3]IRC log > > [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-**svg-irc<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-irc> > > Attendees > > Present > Regrets > cyril > > Chair > SV_MEETING_CHAIR > > Scribe > nikos > > Contents > > * [4]Topics > 1. [5]Percentage values for 'transform' on pattern, > linear/radialGradient, > 2. [6]spreadMethod on gradients > 3. [7]Publication schedule for SVG2 > 4. [8]Filter Effects > * [9]Summary of Action Items > ______________________________**____________________________ > > <trackbot> Date: 25 October 2012 > > <krit> give me a second > > <scribe> scribenick: nikos > > Percentage values for 'transform' on pattern, linear/radialGradient, > > clipPath > > krit: what does % on transform functions mean? > ... is it relative to the bounding box of the object, i.e. a > rect > ... another possibility is user space, or the viewport > ... so the percentage would be a percentage of the dimension of > the viewport > ... if you compare with transforms, it's relative to the > bounding box > ... I would like to do the same with resources, if you have > clippath with a transform, it's relative to the bounding box > > nikos: I agree with you > > ed: It makes more sense to have it that way > > Tav: for somethings, don't we allow the user to select? > > krit: there is no way to select for transform > ... it is also conformant with how we have done it in the psat > > nikos: what about rotation? > > krit: we don't accept percentage for rotate > > Tav: using the bounding box is easier in the code > ... just to be clear, we are talking about bounding box without > markers or stroke? > > krit: the object bounding box > ... it does not include stroke or markers > > resolution: percentage values on transform functions will be > relative to the object bounding box of the referencing element > > spreadMethod on gradients > > <Tav> [10]http://tavmjong.free.fr/**SVG/RADIALGRAD/index.html<http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/RADIALGRAD/index.html> > > [10] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/**RADIALGRAD/index.html<http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/RADIALGRAD/index.html> > > Tav: I started looking at the changes to gradients, I had a > question > ... what do we do for the different spread methods? > ... what confused me, was the second figure (on that page) > > krit: the big white circle should be filled with pad > ... can we agree that spread methods are still useful? > > Tav: well it would be inconsistent if you didn't have them > > krit: what I really miss, is having spreadMethod none > > Tav: I thought about that and was going to suggest it until I > realised Canvas always does padding > > krit: for gradients, I want it to be compatible with Canvas, > doesn't mean we can't do more > > Tav: I'm not sure how useful none is > > ed: it would mean you wouldn't fill the shape potentially, I'm > not sure how useful it is either > > krit: the only graphics library I know that doesn't support > none is core graphics, I think it could be useful > > Tav: if you look at fig 5, I wanted to check if it's rendered > correctly? > > krit: it is > > Tav: the only difference between SVG and Canvas, is what > happens when the start and end circle are touching > > krit: there shouldn't be a difference > ... you mean fully overlapping right? > > Tav: no I mean touching one point (fig 7) > ... Canvas does not fill the entire plane, SVG does > > krit: I'm not sure about that > ... if you think about infinite big circles, the right side can > never be filled > > Tav: if you look at the SVG spec, it says you average the > colours and fill the right part with the averaged value > > krit: It should do exactly as you have drawn in fig7 > I agree. Figure 7 is correct. I think the old behavior follows the current definition of how a radial gradient is rendered. Now that we move to the new definition (a radial gradient is an infinite set of circles), it is no longer correct. > > Tav: it would be different if you had spreadMethod=reflect or > repeat > > ed: the spreadMethod is just how to repeat the colours, not the > shape > krit: correct > <Tav> > [11]https://svgwg.org/svg2-**draft/pservers.html#**RadialGradientNo<https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#RadialGradientNo> > tes > > [11] https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/**pservers.html#** > RadialGradientNotes<https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#RadialGradientNotes> > > nikos: is there any difference if the focal circle touches the > outer circle, or if the focal circle touches the outer circle? > > krit: there should be no difference > ... in Canvas the area to the right should be transparent > ... mathematically it is transparent, but it could be specced > to be filled > ... do we want consistency? > > ed: for CSS gradient the same problem applies, I think Tab was > saying that the CSS group preferred the averaging > ... we have discussed this before > > krit: it's a question of whether we want to be compatible with > CSS gradients or with HTML Canvas > > ed: in general I find it nice if the paint servers fully fill > the given shape > > nikos: since we are allowing CSS gradient paint servers, why > not spec the opposite in SVG, then you can select one or the > other? > > krit: for Webkit, I'm not sure if it would be implemented > ... I'm not sure if this edge case is even implemented for CSS > gradients > > Tav: what is the status of the CSS spec? could they change it? > > <scribe> ACTION: Krit to craft some test cases to compare the > implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in > [12]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action01<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action01> > ] > > <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find Krit. You can review and > register nicknames at > <[13]http://www.w3.org/**Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users> > >. > > [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/**SVG/WG/track/users%3E<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users%3E> > . > > <scribe> ACTION: krit to craft some test cases to compare the > implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in > [14]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action02<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action02> > ] > > <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find krit. You can review and > register nicknames at > <[15]http://www.w3.org/**Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users> > >. > > [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/**SVG/WG/track/users%3E<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users%3E> > . > > <scribe> ACTION: dirk to craft some test cases to compare the > implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in > [16]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action03<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action03> > ] > > <trackbot> Created ACTION-3394 - Craft some test cases to > compare the implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [on > Dirk Schulze - due 2012-11-01]. > > <ed> [17]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/**css3-images/#radial-gradients<http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#radial-gradients> > > [17] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-**images/#radial-gradients<http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#radial-gradients> > > ed: look at 4.2.3 for degenerate cases > > krit: in this case, CSS gradients don't have focal radius > ... if they have a radius of zero, what do they paint? > ... I don't think this is the use case we are looking for > > <krit> [18]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/**css4-images/#conic-gradients<http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css4-images/#conic-gradients> > > [18] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css4-**images/#conic-gradients<http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css4-images/#conic-gradients> > > krit: CSS gradients doesn't matter, because you don't specify > the bounds of the outer circle > ... it's not specified in CSS 4 either > > ed: so for existing content, it would mean that you would see > through some parts of the shape? > > krit: the problem is webkit and firefox always pushed the focal > point inside the circle > ... I think Opera is doing something similar > > ed: I'm leaning towards aligning with Canvas, but I would like > to see some testcases > > krit: We could ask authors what they want? Maybe discuss on the > mailing list > > ed: do we want to wait for the test cases? or resolve on one of > the options now? > > Tav: I'd say wait > > Publication schedule for SVG2 > > ed: I'm not sure if we decided when the next publication would > happen > ... but it would be good to have a date to work against > ... so looking at the table of the current plan, we should have > LC working draft in January > > krit: it's a tough schedule > > ed: that's what I'm thinking, I don't think we can take what we > have now and go to LC > > krit: we should have a F2F before LC > ... so that would be February > ... I would like to have a second WD before we go to LC > > <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: I have some travel in Februaary > > ed: so what dates would be realistic for a second working > draft? > > krit: after our F2F seems to be reasonable > ... I think there's more to discuss, i.e. security concerns > from Mozilla > ... can we resolve that we won't publish in January? do we need > to resolve on that? > > ed: I think it would be good to have a resolution to point to > > rich: was someone doing tab-index? what's the status of that? > > krit: the question is how much we need to specify in SVG? maybe > we can rely on the definition in HTML5 > > <ed> ACTION-3341? > > <trackbot> ACTION-3341 -- Doug Schepers to is going to look > into conflicts between the model of tab index and navigation -- > due 2012-08-30 -- OPEN > > <trackbot> > [19]http://www.w3.org/**Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/**3341<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3341> > > [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/**SVG/WG/track/actions/3341<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/3341> > > rich: I'm certainly going to use what we wrote up for ARIA in > HTML5 because the wording was good > > resolution: goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February - > after F2F > > <scribe> ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in > wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is > February, after the F2F [recorded in > [20]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action04<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action04> > ] > > <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in > server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in > position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq > with the details of what happened. > > <scribe> ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in > wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is > February, after the F2F [recorded in > [21]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action05<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action05> > ] > > <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in > server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in > position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq > with the details of what happened. > > <scribe> ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in > wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is > February, after the F2F [recorded in > [22]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action06<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action06> > ] > > <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in > server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in > position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq > with the details of what happened. > > <scribe> ACTION: Erik to update SVG 2 publication schedule in > wiki to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is > February, after the F2F [recorded in > [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action07<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action07> > ] > > <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in > server response: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in > position 7: ordinal not in range(128)) - please contact sysreq > with the details of what happened. > > <scribe> ACTION:ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki > to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February, > after the F2F [recorded in > [24]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action08<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action08> > ] > > ed: so that brings last call dates forward a bit, not sure by > how much > ... we'll have to adjust the dates to be later > > rich: do we know when we are going to go to REC? > > krit: end of next year (2013) for CR stage > > rich: the reason I'm asking, is I'm working with ePub people, > and they will want to know when the accessibility stuff will > show up > > <ed> > [25]http://www.w3.org/**Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_**Requirements_Co<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Co> > mmitments > > [25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/**SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_** > Commitments<http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments> > > ed: so looking at the commitments page, there are plenty of > things that haven't been put in the spec > ... all the ones that don't have commitment from anyone, are up > for grabs if anyone is interested > > <krit> [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/**filter-effects/<http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/> > > [26] http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-**effects/<http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/> > > Filter Effects > > <krit> [27]http://www.w3.org/TR/**filter-effects/<http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/> > > [27] http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-**effects/<http://www.w3.org/TR/filter-effects/> > > krit: filter effects WPD has been published > ... can I remove relaxNG from the spec? > ... do we need it ? > ... if it's useful, who will write it ? > > ed: we had a starting point from a previous draft of SVG 2 > ... so there are some files that may be ready > ... I'm not really sure what state they are in > > krit: how does relaxNG work with HTML5 and validating there? > ... I would rather remove it, it's adding complexity that is > not needed > ... currently, we just have a note in the spec that we want to > provide it > > ed: I would be fine removing it > ... if we don't have anyone who wants to do the work, we can > remove it and if someone wants to do it later they can > > krit: sounds good > > Summary of Action Items > > [NEW] ACTION: dirk to craft some test cases to compare the > implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in > [28]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action03<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action03> > ] > [NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki > to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February, > after the F2F [recorded in > [29]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action04<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action04> > ] > [NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki > to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February, > after the F2F [recorded in > [30]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action05<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action05> > ] > [NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki > to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February, > after the F2F [recorded in > [31]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action06<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action06> > ] > [NEW] ACTION: ed to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki > to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February, > after the F2F [recorded in > [32]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action08<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action08> > ] > [NEW] ACTION: Erik to update SVG 2 publication schedule in wiki > to note that the goal for next SVG 2 working draft is February, > after the F2F [recorded in > [33]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action07<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action07> > ] > [NEW] ACTION: Krit to craft some test cases to compare the > implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in > [34]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action01<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action01> > ] > [NEW] ACTION: krit to craft some test cases to compare the > implementations of gradients in CSS/Canvas/SVG [recorded in > [35]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html#action02<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html#action02> > ] > > [End of minutes] > ______________________________**____________________________ > > > Minutes formatted by David Booth's [36]scribe.perl version > 1.137 ([37]CVS log) > $Date: 2012/10/25 22:06:20 $ > ______________________________**____________________________ > > [36] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~**checkout~/2002/scribe/** > scribedoc.htm<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> > [37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/**scribe/<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/> > > Scribe.perl diagnostic output > > [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.] > This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 > Check for newer version at [38]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~**checkout~/2002/<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/> > scribe/ > > [38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~**checkout~/2002/scribe/<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/> > > Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) > > Succeeded: s/of a/of the/ > Succeeded: s/sometimes it's nice to have the fill/in general I find it n > ice if the paint servers fully fill the given shape/ > Succeeded: s/some .../some testcases/ > Succeeded: s/WG/WD/ > Succeeded: s/for/from/ > Found ScribeNick: nikos > Inferring Scribes: nikos > > WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! > Possibly Present: IPcaller P3 Tav aaaa aabb cyril ed https joined krit n > ikos rich richardschwerdtfeger scribenick svg trackbot > You can indicate people for the Present list like this: > <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary > <dbooth> Present+ amy > > Regrets: cyril > Agenda: [39]http://lists.w3.org/**Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/** > 2012OctDec <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012OctDec> > /0016.html > > [39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/**Public/public-svg-wg/** > 2012OctDec/0016.html<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012OctDec/0016.html> > > WARNING: No meeting chair found! > You should specify the meeting chair like this: > <dbooth> Chair: dbooth > > Found Date: 25 Oct 2012 > Guessing minutes URL: [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/10/**25-svg-minutes.html<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html> > People with action items: dirk ed erik krit > > [40] http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-**svg-minutes.html<http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-svg-minutes.html> > > > End of [41]scribe.perl diagnostic output] > > [41] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~**checkout~/2002/scribe/** > scribedoc.htm<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> > > > The information contained in this email message and any attachments may be > confidential and may also be the subject to legal professional privilege. > If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, > disclosure or copying of this material is unauthorised and prohibited. 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Received on Friday, 26 October 2012 08:22:58 UTC