- From: Nikos Andronikos <nikos.andronikos@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:14:54 +1000
- To: <www-svg@w3.org>
Minutes from today's SVG WG telcon are at
http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html
and below as text.
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
21 Jun 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0097.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Regrets
heycam, chris
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
nikos
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Report from Test the Web Forward
2. [6]SVG inline elements replaced elements? display:
inline
3. [7]FX: short hand for filter effects
4. [8]Update on status of and plans for non-SVG2 specs
5. [9]HTML5 video and SVG graphics synchronisation
6. [10]Open issues/actions
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 21 June 2012
<scribe> scribenick: nikos
Report from Test the Web Forward
krit: I have a blog post about it
<krit>
[12]http://blogs.adobe.com/webplatform/2012/06/20/test-the-web-
forward-weekend/
[12] http://blogs.adobe.com/webplatform/2012/06/20/test-the-web-forward-weekend/
krit: I think it was a great event. Lots of people were
interested and wrote tests for SVG.
shepazu: I thought it was good that Adobe is helping to push
testing this way
... I made a new methodology for testing transforms
<shepazu>
[13]http://schepers.cc/svg/tests/test-transforms-rotate.svg
[13] http://schepers.cc/svg/tests/test-transforms-rotate.svg
Cyril: I looked at the test, it just shows green on pass
shepazu: That's the idea
... what I did is programatically create 360 rectangles that
are all red
... removed transforms and converted to paths in InkScape
... then put the resulting shape back into the test on a green
background
... then included original transforms and to get rid of
aliasing I added a 3 pixel green stroke
... the result - all you see is green
... we can use this for SVG and CSS transforms
... you may have artifacts if you use pngs
Cyril: fonts may cause problems when converted to paths
shepazu: I gave a presentation at TTWF - there were about 50-60
people
... first day was food and methodologies
... second day was presentations on how you make tests and
share them, etc
... the rest was people writing tests. During the day, Adobe
raffled prizes
... people were there, on a nice day so that says something
about how Adobe hosted
... about 100 tests were submitted
... Alan Stearns, Peter Linss, fantasai and some others
presented
... Thanks to Adobe. It was a great event. Good work Dirk on
creating my slides.
ed: Do we have any svg tests to approve?
shepazu: Ryosuke Niwa from Google made a number of tests
... They were created by krit, I did modify them by hand
... There's a markup syntax you can use and then generate
html+css slides
krit: There's no wysiwyg tool though
SVG inline elements replaced elements? display: inline
krit: We have created some tests with inline SVG and we were
wondering where we define how the SVG element contributes to
HTML
... Is it specified already?
... Our test showed us that the default is inline
... all browsers do the same, the question is whether it is
specified?
ed: What have you checked in the spec so far?
krit: I searched in the HTML5 and a bit in the SVG spec and I
couldn't find anything
Tav: I think it should be in the SVG integration spec
shepazu: I am the editor of the SVG integration spec. We
resolved to publish it long ago but I'm not sure about the
direction of it
... the problem is that we were wanting to have a definitive
list of all attributes in a table and the script for generating
it was screwed up. I was waiting on a fix.
... there's also a lot of comments on the spec that we need to
integrate
Tav: I think it's an important spec
shepazu: Yeh I think it's important, so if we can get that
script working, then I'm happy to publish whenever
... Anthony was working on it
ed: CDF working group never got around to defining the
SVG-inline-in-html case
... I don't think it has anything defining how inline SVG and
HTML works
shepazu: SVG integration draws from some ideas from CDF, so I
think that's the right place to put it
krit: I wouldn't be opposed
ed: I agree
... It's nice that all the viewers do the same thing even
though it isn't defined. A lot of content would break if it
wasn't like that
shepazu: SVG integration lists all attributes and properties
and where they are defined
... that wouldn't be appropriate for SVG 2 spec
... we could put it in SVG 2 if we want
Resolution: SVG inline in html case will be defined in SVG 2
<scribe> ACTION: shepazu will include SVG inline in html case
in SVG 2 [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3310 - Will include SVG inline in
html case in SVG 2 [on Doug Schepers - due 2012-06-28].
FX: short hand for filter effects
krit: At the moment we have filter effects without a dash and
both capitalised
... CSS and SVG don't use capitalised words
... I propose we use filter-effects without capitals
ed: Ok with me
Resolution: Filter effects shorthand will be filter-effects
ed: Dirk you are going to be come co-editor of that spec?
krit: Not 100% sure yet
<scribe> ACTION: krit change filter effects shorthand to
filter-effects [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - krit
<krit> dschulze
<scribe> ACTION: dschulze change filter effects shorthand to
filter-effects [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3311 - Change filter effects
shorthand to filter-effects [on Dirk Schulze - due 2012-06-28].
Update on status of and plans for non-SVG2 specs
<ed>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJu
n/0097.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0097.html
nikos: Compositing and blending has been reviewed by krit, FPWD
not far off. I'm not sure how long each step takes so it's hard
to update the table
krit: When you think it's ready you can get resolution from
FXTF
Tav: How many months do you normally allow per step?
shepazu: That varies FPWD - LC could be 2 years it could be
less
... LC to CR 6-8 weeks is reasonablye but you'll probably have
more than 1 LC
... so probably 4 months
... Technically you don't need to go into CR, if you have tests
that are passed by implementations you can have 0 day CR
... more typically is a few months or 6 months
... depends on implementations and tests
... After CR comes proposed reccomendation which is 6 weeks
... sort of a watch state
... maybe 4 weeks
... then comes REC. W3C specs are good for 10 years and then
they are removed
ed: I think one of the things Cameron wanted figured out was
for the specs that no one is doing edits on
krit: Any particular spec?
ed: SVG accessibility for example
... do we have anything on that?
shepazu: Not really, I have some notes and little things
... A member has expressed interest in joining to explicitly
work on SVG accessibility
ed: Do the estimates look ok then?
... does it make sense to list an estimate with no one working
on it?
Tav: leave it blank
shepazu: We could put those in a separate list. Timeline is
pending securing an editor
... we should give as much info as we have
ed: Another one that was asked about was masking and clipping
shepazu: Did we decide not to do that one?
ed: I think so. From what I remember we talked about using the
compositing instead
krit: I thought Ed O'Conner and Vincent wanted to work on a
masking spec
... I'll check
nikos: There's an open action on Anthony Grasso to fold
clipping and masking spec into compositing module
... from 2008
ed: what about SVG Parameters?
shepazu: People are working on that. I'd like to devote a
telcon on it sometime
ed: the estimates are ok then?
shepazu: For now. you guys change the timelines as you think
... First we need to look at first draft, then the api and
syntax
... maybe I could make a public call to find out what syntax
people want
... it might be able to be defined in terms of CSS variables
... I'd have to talk to Tab about that
... maybe he could join a call
ed: SVG Integration. What's holding that back?
shepazu: attributes table
... I think Cameron might be the natural person to do that
... he's managing the build system
nikos: do we know the status of the script?
shepazu: Can we put this on the agenda for next week?
ed: Color Management? Chris is not here, he was the one doing
that spec
... He posted to the list. There is work going on that one
... Tiling and Layering?
birtles: I've been in discussion with Takagi-san. He's working
on it and will integrate some of the features into SVG 2
proper. I need to go through the stuff he's sent me. He's still
active on it.
... He's saying that mapping is becoming more central to the
web. especially with mobile. With Apple pushing their mapping
he wants to push for a standard.
ed: Vector Effects?
shepazu: I see Chris plans to prioritise work on SVG 2 over
that until SVG 2 is further along
ed: We already have resolutions to add minor pieces from it
into SVG 2
... so we're just waiting for someone to take up SVG
accessibility
birtles: I'd like to add animations onto that list
<birtles> Web Animations spec:
[18]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/web-anim/index.htm
l
[18] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/web-anim/index.html
<ed> s/minor pieces from it/minor pieces from it (such as
non-scaling-stroke and fill/stroke-order)/
ed: so how close is the web animations spec from FPWD?
birtles: The initial goal is to have it more or less complete
by SVG open (September)
krit: Do we need reviews on it before FPWD?
birtles: I suppose we do. I'm not familiar with the normal
process.
ed: I guess the review before publishing FPWD is up to the
working groups
... if not everyone agrees on a resolution to publish FPWD it
will need more work
birtles: We'd like to have something ready to be reviewed by
mid to late September
ed: So brian do you want to add it to the table/
birtles: yep
[19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Roadmap#Timeline
[19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Roadmap#Timeline
HTML5 video and SVG graphics synchronisation
Cyril: It's a follow up of something I was working on before my
trip to Australia
<Cyril>
[20]http://concolato.wp.mines-telecom.fr/2012/06/18/html-5-vide
o-and-svg-graphics-synchronization/
[20] http://concolato.wp.mines-telecom.fr/2012/06/18/html-5-video-and-svg-graphics-synchronization/
Cyril: I was working on a way to display SVG graphics on video
in a browser
... I made some experiments
... Basically I put SVG content in a web vtt file
... I've tested with all browsers and it doesn't work at the
moment
... I don't think it's a proper solution
... I tried a different approach using Canvas. I have a HTML5
video and I monitor the time events
... I wasn't really succesful with this solution either
... time and date event isn't precise
... last attempt was displaying an SVG animation on top of the
video. It works quite well.
... it works very well for stepping through the video frame by
frame
... as did canvas
... but when you play it real speed it plays almost properly
... the thing that bothers me is, I used the seek features, I
couldn't control the timeline
... my reccommendation is if people thing it's an interesting
use case we should enable HTML 5 media group on SVG element
... if two elements share the same value for media group then
they are synchronised by the browser
... you wouldn't have to do anything
... another element is to allow the svg element inside the
track element of HTML
birtles: We've looked at it as part of web animations. it's
difficult.
Cyril: so far from my tests it seems to work only on Chrome
... I think if we want synchronised video and graphics with
frame accuracy we don't want to do it with script
... the browser controls the timeline so telling the browser
the timeline should follow the video is the way to go
birtles: I agree. We talked about a number of options when
Alex, Shane and Rik came to Tokyo
... the main difficulty is integrating with HTML's media
element interfaces
... I think it's something we want in web animations and I
think that's the right place for it.
Cyril: I'm not sure if it's a question of animation. It seems
to be more a question of integration
birtles: The use case could be video and text or video and svg
as you mentioned
Cyril: Do you have documentation - minutes or anything?
birtles: not much. We did talk about having a third time
container which is a synchronised time container specifically
to line up with HTML media groups
Cyril: Maybe we can discuss at the F2F in July
<birtles> there are a few notes here:
[21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Web_Animations/Meetings/
Tokyo_F2F_Day_1 (but I think we later reversed a lot of those
decisions :) )
[21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Web_Animations/Meetings/Tokyo_F2F_Day_1
<ed> [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues
[22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues
Open issues/actions
ed: Not all issues have an assigned product
<ed> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/open
[23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/open
ed: Same story with the actions
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: dschulze change filter effects shorthand to
filter-effects [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: krit change filter effects shorthand to
filter-effects [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: shepazu will include SVG inline in html case in
SVG 2 [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [27]scribe.perl version
1.136 ( [28]CVS log)
$Date: 2012/06/21 22:10:50 $
__________________________________________________________
[27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43
Check for newer version at
[29]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
[29] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/[missed name]/Ryosuke Niwa/
Succeeded: s/HMLT/HTML/
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WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/minor pieces from it/minor pieces from it
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Found ScribeNick: nikos
Inferring Scribes: nikos
WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Cyril Doug_Schepers P0 P11 Tav aaaa aabb aacc aadd bi
rtles ed jet joined krit nikos scribenick shepazu svg trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
<dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
<dbooth> Present+ amy
Regrets: heycam chris
Agenda:
[30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0097.h
tml
[30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0097.html
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 21 Jun 2012
Guessing minutes URL:
[31]http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: change dschulze effects filter krit shepazu s
horthand
[31] http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-svg-minutes.html
End of [32]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
[32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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