- From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
- Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:34:54 +1100
- To: 'www-svg' <www-svg@w3.org>
Hello, please find the minutes from today's SVG WG telcon at
http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html
and below as plain text.
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
13 Oct 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0019.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
+1.408.543.aaaa, ed, +33.9.53.77.aabb, tbah, heycam, ChrisL,
shepazu
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Cameron
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]SVG2 planning
2. [6]SVG Open 2011 F2F
3. [7]requirements
* [8]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 13 October 2011
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam
SVG2 planning
<ChrisL>
[9]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
[9] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
ED: we originally thought we'd be done with the requirements and use
cases draft
... tomorrow
... that seems unlikely
CL: I think we could agree to finalise it by the end of the F2F
though
... we could get rid of some of the proposals, merge some
... also find out which one whether there's any authoring support,
any authoring problems, any implementation interest
DS: we could turn this into an opportunity that we are seeking from
SVG Open people input on the requirements
... show them what we have so far
ED: you're editing the document?
<ed>
[10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing
_List_Feedback
[10]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback
CL: the wiki page, which I guess is the draft of that document
<cyril> /me trying to call in from Australia but can't get the right
prefix ...
CL: where did the 15th come from?
... I'd like to resolve on having a draft of our uc+req document by
the end of the F2F
... even if it's incomplete, just to set some direction
ED: anyone opposed?
(none)
RESOLUTION: We will have a draft of SVG2 Use Cases & Reqs document
by end of TPAC 2011 and publish a draft directly afterwards
ED: should we assign an action to group these items on the wiki
page?
CM: do we need to do that now or just for publication?
TB: would be better to do it earlier
ED: we could do some of this at the SVG Open meeting
... shall we go through the remaining ones that don't have comments?
... I was wonder about the "use cleanup" one
CL: I added something there about what I think it should be
... it relates to two issues
... one is being clearer about shadow dom/trees, how dynamic they
are, whether they react to changes/liveness
... the second is the hokey inheritance into shadow trees
CM: I think it needs investigation to see whether the style
inheritance does need changes, what the implementation state is,
etc.
DS: we should look at the component model work
... maybe for SVG2 we say use is like a templating thing, the
inheritance model etc., like the component model
... that way implementors only have to do oen thing, special cased
slightly for use, instead of a very different thing for use
CM: I agree
<scribe> ACTION: Tab to investigate how to align SVG use with the
Component Model [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3135 - Investigate how to align SVG use
with the Component Model [on Tab Atkins Jr. - due 2011-10-20].
DS: Tab says he thinks it would be relatively easy to do this, to
have something that is very much like use but not identical
<cyril> do you have a link to the Component Model description ?
DS: I think we should get as close to use as we can with the
existing Component Model, maybe modify the CM in response
... I want to ensure the use cases are covered, and as backwards
compatible as possible
... the component model relies heavily on script, too
TA: we are looking at the script based components first, but we will
look at the declarative version
CM: I did mean to look into the Component Model to see how it should
work for the sXBL use cases, but I haven't had the time
DS: we should do that, look at the sXBL/RCC use cases
... now that SVG is everywhere, doing things like replacing a table
with a chart is something people will now want to do
... I've got this question a few times: does SVG have a data binding
model?
... and I've said no, you can make one with script, but it doesn't
have a native one
... and rather than having a big scripted solution, it could draw
from the data to create the graph
... and the discussions we had earlier about making accessible
infographics start to make more sense
... so the Component Model is interesting not just from the "use"
perspective but also the "sXBL use cases" perspective
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to investigate the Component Model for SVG re
sXBL use cases after 11 Nov 2011 [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3136 - Investigate the Component Model for
SVG re sXBL use cases after 11 Nov 2011 [on Doug Schepers - due
2011-10-20].
<ed> [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/SVGOpen_2011
[13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/SVGOpen_2011
SVG Open 2011 F2F
ED: please add yourself to the wiki page if you're attending
... this will be on the workshop day
... depending on how much we have to discuss we could go for half a
day or the whole day
CM: what topics do we have for that day? at least Gradients for Tav?
TB: maybe connectors?
DS: I'm happy to talk about connectors, didn't think there was much
support for it, but if we can build support for it, yeah
TB: there's a group in Inkscape who is interested in that
CL: that reminded me there's a group in Inkscape interested in
variable width stroke, so let's put that on the agenda
<ed>
[14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/SVGOpen_2011/agenda_p
roposals
[14]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/SVGOpen_2011/agenda_proposals
DS: I have a spec for Connectors, even if it doesn't get into
browsers right away, if it gets into authoring tools for static
stuff, that could still be a useful step towards building support
for it
CL: I would like to call in. could someone try to find out whether
there is a way?
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to ensure there is a phone available at the
SVG Open 2011 F2F [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3137 - Ensure there is a phone available
at the SVG Open 2011 F2F [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-10-20].
ED: I suggest starting the SVG Open meeting early in the day to see
whether we need the whole day or not
... there might be some people who want to go to the workshops
<TabAtkins_> shepazu has to go to another meeting now
CL: there was a request to discuss the mapping taskforce at the F2F
... so we should ensure there's a substantial discussion on that
... we should check to see whether andreas can attend
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to contact Andreas and Takagi-san about time
and attendance of mapping taskforce discussion [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3138 - Contact Andreas and Takagi-san
about time and attendance of mapping taskforce discussion [on Erik
Dahlström - due 2011-10-20].
<ed> [17]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/Pre-TPAC2011/results
[17] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/Pre-TPAC2011/results
requirements
ED: improving the DOM
... that's a pretty large group of things
CL: it's easy to resolve to make it better, but we need something
more concrete
... so we should look at the work WebApps is doing to inform our SVG
DOM improvements
ED: we should scope our work to SVG DOM improvements and leave
general improvements to the DOM WG
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to gather and write up a proposal for
improving SVG DOM [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3139 - Gather and write up a proposal for
improving SVG DOM [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-10-20].
ED: text flow is another one that is a maybe for some people
CL: I put down maybe because it's clearly a requirement, and there's
people wanting to do it, otoh the way that we did it produced
pushback from css/browser guys
... and now they actually have two specs that cover that
(exclusions/regions)
... and it's likely that will work with svg too
CM: so we can include it in the requirements document
CL: but we should point out the different possible approaches
(including using the css work)
CM: connectors, it says inkscape folks are working on a proposal to
submit about that
TB: not sure they've started on the proposal, but they intend to
ED: I think we can include it as a feature request
... btw do we need to worry about html5/xml?
... whether svg is based on the dom, or the markup
CM: yes I think we should write the spec based on the DOM
... and include details on how particular markup produces a DOM
ED: do we have a writeup of that?
CM: don't think so, discussed briefly in Seattle
... I'd like to see more details
ED: data attributes (and aria) is another thing we should look at
from html
CL: yes we should track that
CM: "Intersection of superpath, vector effects and connectors"
... wasn't sure exactly what it was
CL: something similar from vector effects, but it was a real drawing
primitive, so probably shouldn't be in VE
... this is useful for shared path edges
... so renderers don't do hazy antialiasing when drawing two shapes
with the shared edges
... smaller file size, too
... how that fits with connectors, couldn't tell
... a bit handwavey
CM: so this is basically "shared path edges"
CL: and compound shapes made of multiple paths
<cyril> my colleague at Telecom ParisTech started a wiki page on
shared path edges
<cyril>
[19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/Shared_Path_Mot
ivation
[19]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/Shared_Path_Motivation
CL: this also means you need to be able to automatically reverse a
path edge, for consistent filling
<scribe> ACTION: Chris to work up a shared path edge / superpath
proposal [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3140 - Work up a shared path edge /
superpath proposal [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-10-20].
ACTION-3140: see also
[21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/Shared_Path_Mot
ivation
[21]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Proposals/Shared_Path_Motivation
<trackbot> ACTION-3140 Work up a shared path edge / superpath
proposal notes added
ED: next, declarative drawing, the replicate tag
<cyril> chris, feel free to contact Jean-Claude Moissinac, he has
several examples on which he could test the proposal
CM: I guess I would like to see it grounded in use cases
ED: I think the gradient-on-lines part of it is interesting
<cyril> what is "gradient-on-lines" ?
CL: one advantage is its declarativeness
... so it would work in HTML background images for example
<ed> cyril: i meant contour gradients, similar to tubefy if you've
seen that
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to tease out the different functionality from
the "Declarative drawing" requirements entry [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3141 - Tease out the different
functionality from the "Declarative drawing" requirements entry [on
Erik Dahlström - due 2011-10-20].
ED: next, function based input for animate
CL: I'd like to see it motivated a bit more. I think I know what
it's for, but I'm not sure.
CM: we might have talked about something like that before, using
SMIL for timing and JS for the value computation
... I remember wanting to be able to do that in the past, not sure
if it was for anything practical
ED: I'd like to see some actual examples, what it's trying to solve
CM: should we ask david for details / use cases?
CL: yes
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to contact David for more details on
function-based input for animate [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3142 - Contact David for more details on
function-based input for animate [on Erik Dahlström - due
2011-10-20].
ED: next, enhanced text support
... is that the same as the tubefy work?
CM: yes I think the second dotpoint there is
... I can't remember what the outcome of the Seattle discussions on
text warping was
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to find the outcome of Seattle text warping
discussion and add it to requirements wiki page [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3143 - Find the outcome of Seattle text
warping discussion and add it to requirements wiki page [on Erik
Dahlström - due 2011-10-20].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Cameron to gather and write up a proposal for
improving SVG DOM [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to work up a shared path edge / superpath
proposal [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to investigate the Component Model for SVG re
sXBL use cases after 11 Nov 2011 [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to contact Andreas and Takagi-san about time and
attendance of mapping taskforce discussion [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to contact David for more details on
function-based input for animate [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to ensure there is a phone available at the SVG
Open 2011 F2F [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to find the outcome of Seattle text warping
discussion and add it to requirements wiki page [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to tease out the different functionality from the
"Declarative drawing" requirements entry [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Tab to investigate how to align SVG use with the
Component Model [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 13 October 2011 21:35:45 UTC