- From: Dr. Olaf Hoffmann <Dr.O.Hoffmann@gmx.de>
- Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 10:01:20 +0100
- To: www-svg@w3.org, chuck@jumis.com
Charles Pritchard: ... >I'm here to explore what exists, how we can make it work >with available standards, and to see if new methods or >attributes are needed by the AT and/or content authors. I think, many problems are already covered by the option to provide a text alternative, in doubt if there is a problem with the graphics or the understanding of the graphics, everybody should have an option in his viewer to switch to the text alternative to get some help. Understanding of graphics can be quite difficult for everybody, text alternative can help everyone. Unfortunately many current viewers have no text alternative or the current presentation is only of limited use for the audience, therefore it is even harder for authors to write text alternatives - if they have no practical experience, how text alternatives are presented, they get no practice how to provide it in a meaningful way. For many shapes it is not possible to provide simpler shapes. If it is a named (mathematical) shape, the next simpler (?) presentation is either prose or a formula or both. Therefore simpler shapes are only an option for objects, we have an abstraction in mind - what the author means, has already an abstract representation in the brains of the audience, therefore there are many (graphical) representations fitting to such an abstraction, simpler and more complex as for 'sleeping cat in a rocking chair swinging by a gentle breeze' - but it is the question, if it is useful to introduce some 'simpler' graphical abstraction level or if the abstraction level of the alternative text is not in general better, because we have in mind already some abstraction to imagine the intended graphics or szenario. Problematic cases are representations of objects we have not in mind - and even if we have the mathematical description, it is often quite difficult for most people to imagine a graphical representation. Concerning, ARIA, role, RDF(a), accessibility and SVG I can see some more interesting problems: - problem of semantics: indicate semantics (of text in SVG) with role, RDF(a); possible especially with attributes added in SVG tiny 1.2, more difficult with RDF in meta for SVG 1.1. example: Indicate semantic structures like a paragraph, title, heading, quotation, poem (-strophe/line) etc in general this works as well if someone wants to indicate a group to represent a cat, house, named geometrical structure - at least if there is a formal language available with referencable definitions for role or RDF(a). - problem of cloning: For a text representation it is not obvious how to represent cloned objects (use, tref) - should the information be repeated or not in the text representation and at which position of source code? This might require an additional attribute/indication to say, which clone matters - for example on the use and tref element, however this does not solve the problem, that a used element can be reused as well - not sure how to indicate, which clone matters. But obviously it would be a pain for the audience, if for example for an IFS (iterated function system) of a tree, the screenreader (or whatever is used) would have to repeat thousands of times 'leaf' due to cloning and because the original 'leaf' element contains a title or desc with this information. Typically one should expect, that elements in the defs elements itself have no text representation, only the clones - or in case of animation elements, pattern, gradients etc, if they are referenced by other elements outside the defs. Not a simple task to present a meaningful text presentation of such structures. It is maybe simpler to be able to indicate all clones as meaningless for the text representation and to indicate an additional structure, that represents them all at once? - problem of rendering order: Because the place in the source code determines the rendering order, this will dominate the order of objects within the source code, not what would be understandable for a text representation - this might require a mechanism to indicate, which order is useful for a text representation - not sure, how to do this ... Of course, one could use the text optimised order within the defs and reference all of this only with use elements for the graphical representation, but then there is a need to indicate, that the defs contains a structure adequate for a text representation. The other way would be possible too - to have a specific structure for the text representation similar to a defs containing only use elements to indicate a proper order for text repesentation - well maybe this is possible already with RDF within a meta element? - problem of (mathematical) graphs, technical drawings etc: Typically the SVG presentation (path data) is pretty useless to (re)use the information, because the relation from raw numerical data to SVG path data cannot be reconstructed, information gets inaccessible for any audience, because everybody needs the raw data as text to use the information represented by the graphics. Solution a: Put raw data into the meta element additionally or reference another file containing the information related to the graphical representation (one can do this right now with SVG 1.1/1.2) Solution b: Put raw data into the meta element and provide a mechanism to generate the SVG path data from this. Advantage: Data are effectively reused and simple to change without a need to recalculate the graphical representation. Disadvantage: does not work currently in SVG 1.1/1.2. Olaf
Received on Tuesday, 19 April 2011 09:01:54 UTC