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[CSSWG] Minutes Telecon 2022-07-20 [css-scoping] [web-animations-2] [scroll-animations-1]

From: Dael Jackson <daelcss@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 19:10:03 -0400
Message-ID: <CADhPm3vFeyrQ-2044=+6YUvcW1opoUeCPxUY=-a2F_CX8nWfHQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: www-style@w3.org
  These are the official CSSWG minutes.
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CSS Scoping

  - RESOLVED: Republish when ready (Issue #7494: Publish updated
              css-scoping-1 draft?)

Web Animations

  - RESOLVED: The pseudoElement argument to animate() takes any
              pseudo-element selector, and selects the first matching
              pseudo-element like querySelector() (Issue #7469: Enable
              using Web Animations API with nested pseudo elements)

Scroll Animations

  - RESOLVED: In the absence of scroll range, timeline becomes inactive
              (Issue #7401: currentTime when scroll range is 0?)


Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2022Jul/0004.html

  Rachel Andrew
  Adam Argyle
  Rossen Atanassov
  David Baron
  Oriol Brufau
  Emilio Cobos Álvarez
  Robert Flack
  Simon Fraser
  Daniel Holbert
  Brad Kemper
  Jonathan Kew
  Vladimir Levin
  Daniel Libby
  Chris Lilley
  Peter Linss
  Alison Maher
  Ben Mathwig
  Khushal Sagar
  Jen Simmons
  Alan Stearns
  Miriam Suzanne
  Bramus Van Damme
  Lea Verou

  Tab Atkins Bittner
  Mike Bremford
  Elika Etemad
  Florian Rivoal
  Sebastian Zartner

Scribe: emilio

Agenda & Planning

  Rossen: Should be good to bring the conversation about isVisible back
          to the WG

  Rossen: Other topic is that I'd be attending the next weekly TAG F2F
          so this is the last meeting before seeing folks in person
  Rossen: Please register / change the wiki for last minute changes
  <astearns> https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/nyc-2022
  Rossen: fantasai is organizing from another country so it'd be great
          to make this first hybrid meeting a success

CSS Scoping

Publish updated css-scoping-1 draft?
  github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/7494

  lea: I recently pulled up the spec and since drafts.csswg.org was
       down I used the last published draft
  lea: last published version is from 2014, which is too long ago
  <chris> +1
  chris: I just updated the draft changes so I think it should be good
         to publish
  Rossen: Given fantasai and TabAtkins are out happy to resolve and let
          them bring it back next week if needed

  <miriam> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5809#issuecomment-910896765
  miriam: We resolved a while ago to reorganize some of the scoping
  [see comment above]
  chris: I don't recall everything but some of those changes have been
  miriam: Only concern is to keep clear what belongs where, but not
          opposed to republish
  jensimmons: I think the scoping spec is not about scoping because
              those bits are from the cascade spec
  jensimmons: There's confusion because there's a whole bunch of
              scoping ideas
  jensimmons: so if you search for css scoping you end up in the wrong
  jensimmons: so it'd be clearer if the spec was called shadow
  chris: I'm in favor of pushing specs forward, but if we're going to
         cause confusion I'd rather wait a week or two
  <lea> not sure anyone is actively following when a new draft is
  <chris> not opposed to a resolution

  Rossen: Feedback is great to draw attention on some of the historical
          context. Doubt tab / fantasai would press the button just
          because they see a resolution
  Rossen: We should capture everything needed to republish
  Rossen: objections to republish when tab / fantasai are ready?
  <chris> also good if the introduction had, well, text
  <chris> 1. Introduction ...

  RESOLVED: Republish when ready

  <jensimmons> And thanks lea for pointing out this needed to be

Web Animations

Enable using Web Animations API with nested pseudo elements
  github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/7469

  khush: This is about supporting nested pseudos in web-animations API
  khush: There's an option to pass a string that right now is limited
         to direct descendants of the element
  khush: so you can do `::before` but not `::before::marker`
  khush: Proposal is allowing any kind of syntax
  khush: to allow you to select nested pseudos
  khush: you could also use the descendant selector
  khush: which is a nicer syntax to select a pseudo-tree
  khush: There's the question of what to do when it matches multiple
  khush: so there's the option to make it invalid, or select the first
         like querySelector

  flackr: If you can match multiple pseudos, does that mean that we're
          introducing a case where the pseudo-element can change over
  flackr: dunno if there are cases like this
  khush: I'd say to select the pseudo-element when you make the
         animate() call
  khush: and animation would terminate, just like you can remove
         `::before` styles mid-animation and the animation stops
  flackr: I suspect we should do this in the next lifecycle update so
          that there's no forced style resolution on `animate()`
  khush: That's pre-existing I think, we already do that
  flackr: Also current behavior is that animations keep running when
          the element disappears, and if it comes back it restarts
  khush: Not sure
  flackr: It'd be good to match the existing behavior for single pseudos
  flackr: not sure if this complicates matters a bit but there are
          existing patterns to follow

  Rossen: So for the multiple pseudo case do you think we should stick
          to querySelector() or...?
  khush: I'd say we should do that
  emilio: When you say any selector, what do you mean? you can't put
          any selector. Is there a syntax to define what exactly will
          be allowed?
  khush: When I say any selector I mean anything that targets
         pseudo-elements, so just `::before::marker`-like selectors and

  RESOLVED: The pseudoElement argument to animate() takes any
            pseudo-element selector, and selects the first matching
            pseudo-element like querySelector()

  emilio: Can we resolve to make it consistent for getComputedStyle and
  <flackr> +1
  <khush> +1
  Rossen: As part of this or in a separate issue?
  emilio: Ideally while we're at it, but happy to defer
  Rossen: Let's have it in a separate issue
  <oriol> For getComputedStyle there is

Scroll Animations

currentTime when scroll range is 0?
  github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/7401

  flackr: When you have a scroll timeline the currentTime is
          effectively the scroll-position / range of scroll
  flackr: but if there's no scroll range then you'd have division by
          zero / infinite range
  flackr: We think that the timeline should become inactive when in
          this state
  flackr: rather than being at the beginning or end or something

  Rossen: Makes sense, question would be: if you have a scrollport that
          has content which isn't exceeding the scrollable bounds and
          you resize it, you're saying that only when you have scroll
          range the timeline is valid
  Rossen: Numerically I get your point
  Rossen: in the case when the scrollport resizes
  Rossen: What does that do to the animation?
  Rossen: you said the timeline becomes invalid?
  flackr: Inactive, which is an existing state, where the currentTime
          is null
  flackr: so basically if you resize so that it's not scrollable the
          effects will no longer apply

  emilio: When you stop applying the effects the animation doesn't
          pause right? You get discontinuity
  flackr: That's right, is not weirder than having a very small scroll

  dbaron: Can you have overscroll in these elements?
  flackr: I don't think so
  flackr: Depends on browser, I think on ~all browsers you don't get
          overscroll effect
  flackr: but on safari desktop it does
  flackr: There's also the question of whether the overscroll effect
          factors in the scroll timeline
  dbaron: I was just wondering if you could end up with weird effects
          in the overscroll effect
  flackr: I think we'd still not have a reasonable range
  flackr: I think we shouldn't factor the negative range into the effect
  flackr: it's more stuff to worry about for developers, plus browsers
          don't technically limit the amount of stuff you can overscroll
  <smfr> I agree with not applying overscroll here
  dbaron: That's a good enough answer I think

  RESOLVED: In the absence of scroll range, timeline becomes inactive

Schedule Wrangling
  scribe: dholbert

  [Discussion about what to discuss based on who has sent regrets this

  Rossen: That's the end of the agenda+ items that we can make progress
  Rossen: End early? Additional topics?

  dholbert: How are we deciding issues for f2f?
  Rossen: If you have issues that you want to be available on & you
          haven't posted your availability on the wiki, please do so
  Rossen: I'll add a section in wiki where folks can express
          issue-number-preferences (to be present for)
  Rossen: Alan and I will do our github-project agenda prep stuff the
          week before

  dbaron: I noticed at least one spec that had a TR publication that
          did not include images. This is because bikeshed-echidna will
          support certain files but not all files in the directory [?]
  dbaron: I fixed all specs that I noticed being wrong, putting their
          images in an images directory (for diagrams)
  <chris> dbaron++ nicely done
  dbaron: There were about 10 affected specs; not sure how many had
          been accidentally published without images via echidna

  emilio: Does anyone know status of the csswg draft server, and if we
          can avoid its frequent downtime?
  chris: plinss said he has funding coming, improvements coming soon
  <chris> woohoo!

  Rossen: we're ending early!
  <vmpstr> we're done with css, good job all
  <bramus> Thanks everyone and see you soon.
Received on Wednesday, 20 July 2022 23:10:44 UTC

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